Just Deborah - no reply necessary

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:19 pm

WEll we had our third "family" counseling session today. These have been a my wife's request. I was not and still am not personally getting much out of it for me. As I have said, I like me, I love Deborah so down the road we go! What I am getting out of it is my wife's comments to the shrink. First she has accepted my CD'ing with the codicil that she does not want to "see me dressed." I respect that and go out of my way to make sure that does not happen. I have told her that I pass and really make a pretty girl, but she said she just can not imagine it! Fine, she lets me have my own closet and a dresser for my "unmetionables" and the door stays locked and she is content. You ladies don't know me, but the old saying pretty well fits me if you have read some of my adventures. " I don't take no s...; I don't give no s...; I ain't in the s... business." Today my wife brought up the "intimacy" factor unfortunately (woman speak with forked tongue!) that is indian logo for two different stories. Anyway, she said it was a hormonial variance and she had "no feelings below the waist."
Today she told the counselor that it was my CD'ing but she was trying to get over it. At one point, the counselor actually suggested that she visualize silky things, like I could, should wear some thing feminine, sexy to bed. At first it went right over her head, I could not believe it so I asked him to repeat what he said and - that's what he said! I told him after all he had heard, that was the best he could come up with?! I simply said that "that ain't gonna happen." Not by me or even thinking that my wife would suggest or condone it. Unbelieveable! my wife has not even brought it up and probably has forgotten it but not me. Since she seems to like this guy we will go back but now it will be my pleasure to really play some head games with him. Oh, she also said that the Jung article that I gave my daughter (33, married and 2 boys) really opened her eyes and she is OK with it as it now stands! Honesty, that is the key, learn all you can about it, then honesty! Its working!
If you read all this - bless you! now it is night night time if you aren't already asleep.
Love ya all!!!
Deborah

Beauty · Post by **Beauty** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 4:55 am

Shannon · Post by **Shannon** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:19 pm

Deborah,

I was very touched and feeling of similarities for your comments........

I hope you and your wife can work through this. It isn't easy (as you obviously know) but I hope you get through it....

My best wishes for you and your wife.

Shannon

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:17 am

Hi Sis,

I was also very touched by your comments........

And I too hope you and your wife can work through this.....

Best wishes for both of you.

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:37 pm

HI Deborah,

I totally understand. My wife says that my crossdressing has completely turned her off, and she can not even imagine being sexually attracted to me ever again.

My wife however is more interested in being right than happy. She will not even consider counseling. She told me she don't want to do anything that could lead to her accepting my crossdressing.

Having said all that, she is for sure lying. She has told me at different times that my ear piercings, nipple piercings, excites her fantasies. However she has always maintained that me wearing lingerie to bed turns her off. I think the truth is that she feels incredibly guilty about it, and the guilt she feels is just not worth it to her.

She asked me how turned on I would be if she stopped shaving her underarms, legs, bikini area, and started dressing masculine, and then cut her hair short and in a man's style? She asked me if I would have trouble getting or staying turned on. Of course, it is her that turns me on. so it really would not matter to me. But I still got her point. Perhaps we really are just asking too much of our SO's ?

Love to all,
Elizabeth

Julie M. · Post by **Julie M.** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:21 pm

Sometimes I swear we are leading the same life! So many things I have read from you I could have written myself. I know exactly what you're experiencing because I have lived it.

Therapy has become no different to me than just talking to a stranger when I'm there by myself. The first time I went with my wife I tried to be open and honest to get the stuff on the table. She cried and didn't talk to me all the way home. The second time I avoided getting to the heart of the matter and we just sat and talked. This last time I went alone and all I felt like was I was being labeled as was my entire family. I left with more baggage than I came in with. Next Thursday is couples and I am sort of dreading it.

One thing that has been playing on my mind is my wife's comment she could more easily handle me transtioning into a woman than she can the crossdressing! That shocked me. I figured me transitioning would be the last thing she would want to live through. The therapist asked me if I would If I had my wife's blessing. I told her I could have everyone I know working to convince me to do it and I still wouldn't do it. It just doesn't appeal to me. She aslo speculated maybe my wife is a latent lesbian and living with a woman is more appealing to her than living with a man. Where do these thought processes come from? I'm considering giving up therapy because it ain't helping me anymore.

Keep the chin up Virginia. Things always have a way of working themselves out for the best.

Julie

Ahzz · Post by **Ahzz** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:34 pm

One thought keeps popping up unbidden with each persons post here. What if it's NOT about a man becoming a woman, or a woman becoming a man? What if this is all about blending of the two into the androgenous being?

Society is all about putting things into little descriptive boxes. In each case here it sounds to me as if the real issue is that the CDer wants to become a blend of both sides.

Maybe asking your SO when at the couples session about this may open up both the SO's and the counselors eyes to the possibility that it's all about breaking that darned "boundary of social acceptability". We are after all defining a new area here. It is no longer about being a man or a woman (whatever you started out as doesn't matter), but rather about being able to be placed in the apropriate little boxes that society has defined?

I can't think of any other way to better describe what I'm seeing from each of your posts.

Just remember this: Counselors aren't there to TELL you what is wrong with you. They are there to assist you on the journey to understanding and then managing what is wrong. Think of them more like a guide that you have to ask questions of.

Hope this helps!

CJ · Post by CJ » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:43 am

Hi all,

I agree with Ahzz. My thoughts, exactly. I do think that it's much more of a violation of gender boundaries to "sit on the fence," so to speak, than it is to be (or become) a person whose gender is opposite that of his or her birth (again, Marjorie Garber's ambiguous "third term," which, she says, is much more transgressive and provocative than being either a fully-transitioned, trangendered man or woman). And I agree with Ahzz about therapists, too; they're there to shine a light in the cave, but it's up to us to do the exploring.

Love,
CJ

Virginia · Post by **Virginia** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:06 pm

Since this was not really pointed at Virginia or was it - does not matter, I will reiterate this!! NO one will ever convence me that the counselor that my wife was seeing did not put her up to this divorce. She has self-esteem issues. this fact was brought up in our family counseling sessions and she confirmed it that her counselor also said she had self-esteem issues and I am convienced that her counselor has some how convienced her that she would be substantially improving her self-image and self-esteem by divorcing "the crossdresser." I realize that you girls do not know me or my wife, but I can say this in absolute honesty, I am a nice person, I have never physically or mentally mistreated her, I have given her virtually anything she has wanted. I have never cheated on her or done anything that would be considered abusive. I do not want to go to church and she is religious in nature, not fantical, but religious. I love boating and she does not. Actually she has no interests, I know that sounds strange, but she goes to work comes home watches some TV and goes to bed. On the week-ends, she just "piddles" nothing! No interest in things like yard work, gardening, movies, nothing! Strange! I am a world champion powerlifter, she has absolutely no interest in seeing me compete and I get no support from her or recognition for my accomplishments - I have learned to live with it and never bring it up- now at age 55 she wants a divorce and with basically no explanation.
Life is so interesting. strange?! but never a dull moment!
Love,
Virginia

Post by **DonnaT** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:03 pm

Wow Virginia, wow.

If you don''t mind my asking, what brought you two together in the first place? There must have been some common interest, wasn't there?

Did your wife have any hobbies or other pursuits before you two married?

Why did you two decide to marry? Have you talked to her about that? I hope I'm not being too invasive!

What I'm leading to is, if it were me, and maybe you've already done it, I'd talk to my wife and go back to when we were dating, how we started, what we enjoyed about each other, and then work the conversation up to "When did those feelings start to fade?" "Why?" (and I don't know is not an answer!) And most of all, talk about why you want to remain married to her. No counselor is necessary for this type of discussion, unless she runs away from it and will only discuss it in the counselor's office.

Sometimes couples just drift apart, but you are probably right about the counselor giving bad advice regarding her self esteem issues and suggesting a separation if not divorce. I'd have to look for a second opinion.

Also, depression can lead to feelings she is having, and such depression will aggravate the self-esteem issues. Has she been seen and checked for chemical imbalances that could lead to depression?

I hope things work out for you.