Cross-Dressers are just like woman?

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:18 pm

Hi all,

Not every woman wears make up, in fact I see many weekly that don't. This has caused me to ask a question that may serve to put someones emotions in a twister.

Some women and most cross-dressers appear to have one outstanding thing in common. They are both presenting a false front. They wear the same masks.......No?

Lorna · Post by **Lorna** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:05 pm

Funny you mention this - I was watching Chris Rock's comedy special "Bigger & Blacker". In one bit he says that women were bigger liars than men.

"Ladies... most of you wear heels - you ain't that tall! Some of you wear hair extensions - your hair ain't that long! Some of you wear pushup bras - your titties ain't that big!"

Hilarious!!!

But following that theory, if women are bigger liars, then what about us CDs? LOL...

Elizabeth · Post by **Elizabeth** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:22 pm

Darlene,

I think women are well aware of this. As are us crossdressers. I mean blush? that is to look like we are sexually ready. Women's face's blush when aroused. Same with lipstick, thier lips fill with blood and become more sensitive and red. Eye makeup to make the eyes look bigger by outlining them. For some reason, bigger eyes are more attractive. Bras that hold a womans breast in a firm outright position, feining a youthful appearance. Shaving our bodies to give a more youthful appearance.

My wife has said on several occaissions that I looked better than her. What she meant was, I had more masks on than her. At least that is my take on it. And I think that to some degree, it is a matter of what you are accustomed to. I like seeing myself with makeup on, I like feeling pretty all the time. There are many others who do not have this need or desire. They feel just fine not wearing makeup. And still for others, it is a loss of self esteem. The "what's the use?" attitude. I know that when I don't get up, shave my body, put on nice clothes and makeup, I don't feel as good about myself. It was like I was not worth the time.

One of the things I really enjoy about being a crossdresser is spending a lot of time on myself, something I never did in my male life. I used to get up for work, ten minutes before I had to leave. I would get dressed, because I showered the night before, brush my teeth, put on some deoderant, and grab my coffee on the way out. Later that day, I would come home, take a shower that was all business, put on some clean clothes, and that was it. Less that 20 minutes a day, taking care of myself.

As a result, I never really cared how I looked. I mean, I knew I was not going to look how I wanted to look, so I took the "who cares" approach. I think many GG that have very busy lives, or have let themselves go, or just don't have the time to spare to really treat themselves, and it developes into the "who cares" mentality.

At least that is my opinion.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Candice · Post by **Candice** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:37 pm

elizabeth hit it on the nail...ditto what she said, hehe.

CJ · Post by CJ » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:57 pm

Hi all,

Hmmmm...

Seems to me everyone who owns a face is, in some sense, wearing a mask.

Love,
CJ

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:05 am

Hmmmm... CJ.... Could it not then be said that those women who do not wear make up are not wearing quite as many masks?

CJ · Post by CJ » Mon Oct 18, 2004 12:44 am

Hi all,

Darlene,

You may have a point, there.

I'd have to give this more thought. The thing is, I know many women who don't wear makeup (or don't try to enhance their appearance in any other way) but yet seem to be wearing more (or more opaque) masks than some who do. One woman I've known for close to 18 years (an ex) seeks shelter behind her sharp, sharp mind, it seems to me. Her high intelligence is a mask, in a way, and I know it much better than I do her heart and soul. On the other hand, I also know women who, though they pretty themselves up, aren't afraid to wear their heart on their sleeves or to share what lives in their souls.

If what you're getting at is that makeup (or any other cosmetic enhancement) is akin to presenting a false front (something you seem to be saying CD's do as well, by behaving similarly), well, I'm not so sure I can easily agree. Most women I know don't seem to "lose" themselves in the persona they create by cosmetically enhancing their looks whereas (again, it seems to me) a lot of crossdressers tend to do just that. If a woman wears makeup, she knows it's a mask--she can take it off not only without regret but with an actual sense of relief. Whereas it's often the case that, to a CD, it's his drab male self that he'll consider a mask and the pretty, cosmetically enhanced, feminine self to be a true expression of who he is. The makeup comes off reluctantly... you'll never see a woman go to bed with her makeup on but you will see a CD do so.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts. I'd have to ponder further. It's an interesting topic.

Love,
CJ

Loretta Ann · Post by **Loretta Ann** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:58 am

Hi CJ. and others,

I don't think I am necessarily attempting to get at any thing. I just thought it would be a good topic to throw out for discussion, and see what comes of it.

Your above post has triggered some more thoughts, namely that many people do indeed have masks as you have indicated. For some make up is nothing more than a mask on top of other masks.

I suspect that some masks might even be healthy. Make up (for me) done well is "eye candy." regardless of who is wearing it. Getting behind the make up mask, might enable one to see more clearly the "heart candy" which happens to be more attractive to me.

There are those women who all they have going for themselves is eye candy (via make up), an option males do not have unless one is a cross-dresser.

Like I said just some more thoughts thrown out to think about.

Curly(SO) · Post by **Curly(SO)** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:58 am

I actually feel more 'myself' when I have makeup on. I never go out the house with none on, bare minimum would be lipstick, before going out the front door. If I went out with none on, I would feel like I am not presenting the real me, because the real me likes to look good. I only feel like it is a mask inasmuch that I'm covering up pale lips, or uneven skintone, that is all I am hiding with makeup.

Pause to think....

.....No I am not telling the whole truth here....I want to portray myself as a glamorous, self-assured woman who has her life together, I would not feel like that without makeup one, but once I am done up, I feel more confident, so maybe it is a mask. I certainly don't feel like a glamorous, self-assured woman sitting here in my pink PJs, hair all unbrushed, but in an hour when I walk out the door I will feel a different person. It is amazing how a bit of makeup can make you feel! Still not convinced it is a mask, because once I'm done up, the makeup is not hiding an unattractive unconfident woman...I suddenly become confident and attractive

To go off on a tangent a bit, on another forum I go on, there was a discussion about makeup (it was a beauty forum). There were women on there who said they did not wear makeup because they did not feel confident enough to do so. their self-esteem was so low that they thought that people would be looking at them thinking 'who does she think she is, wearing all that makeup?' They felt like they weren't good enough to wear it, and felt silly doing so. Others were like me, only felt good about themselves and confident once they had makeup on.

Sorry, this is a rather rushed post, I will try to write a more cohesive piece later!

Love,
Curly(SO)

Merinda · Post by **Merinda** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:30 am

Men wear masks too , they're called beards , men hide behind them

it has often been said

SophieLawson · Post by **SophieLawson** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:52 am

I normally always have stubble in boymode

I think you need these masks for confidence, I have stubble for confidence in boymode, I would guess women wear makeup to feel more sexy and confident, I dont see a problem with masks

Sophie xx

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:07 am

some women who go without makeup sometime look like men. some men who don't shave look like apes. apes, well, always look like apes.

maybe we're too attached by labels and just need to be ourselves and do what pleases us.

CJ · Post by CJ » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:50 am

Hi all,

Wow. Who knew? Darlene's fairly innocent question leads to a discussion on the presentation of self and its relation to self-esteem.

I've said this before, somewhere on the forum, but I'll repeat it here because I find this fascinating. The ancient Greeks (the creators of theater as we still practice it today) called the clay mask through which the actor spoke his lines a "persona." From per (meaning "through") and sona ("sound"); in other words, that through which the actor (or, metaphorically, the Self as Actor) voices his lines. The implication being that the Actor (the Self) is never truly visible to his audience but, by wearing a mask (the mask of personality), he can make known to others what he feels and thinks. In that sense, we all wear masks.

As far as makeup goes (and Curly pointed this out), how a person--man or woman--feels when wearing it has more to do with the social aspects of our lives; sometimes, it serves to highlight something that's already there, in our personality (say, self-confidence), for others to see or notice, and sometimes it serves to attenuate whatever "blemish" we imagine others might notice (say, pale lips or an uneven skin tone). Makeup, in itself, is not so much another mask as it is a "tweaking tool" of sorts for the one we inevitably wear just by being a person (a persona).

The "mask" of who I am, as a person, follows me wherever I go, regardless if I'm to be seen by anyone else or not (including my gazing at myself in a mirror). As Lorna mentioned elsewhere on the forum, when she's home alone, although she may dress up, she doesn't always put on makeup. Neither do I (and, maybe, neither do most of you). Makeup can be part of our "social face," just as much as is our personality. It's not a necessary ingredient (many women don't wear makeup, after all), but it is a sometimes useful tool in helping us show "our best face," so to speak, to the world at large. I'm not sure how this could be considered a "false front." Especially in view of the fact that absolutely nobody ever really, truly, completely gets to know our deepest, most inner selves... our "true front," if you will (the Actor behind the mask of our personality).

Elizabeth, wearing an evolutionary psychologist's hat (and it suits her well), makes a couple of interesting points about the intended effects of cosmetic enhancements. Yes, along with wide childbearing hips and full, well-rounded "maternal" breasts, makeup can be used as an "attractor" by sexualizing some aspects of a woman's body and face more than they already are. For example (and I'll say all this in a very clinical manner--I hope nobody gets offended), the full, red lips are intended to mirror a woman's engorged genitals, signaling a readiness to copulate (as does the blushed, flushed complexion). The thinning and defining of the eyebrow, along with the artful use of eyeshadow promotes--by highlighting the eye--a deep, soulful, inviting gaze (contact lenses with a bigger pupil also have this effect). Again, this is a sexual signal. That there's a sexual aspect to makeup is a given. Otherwise, there wouldn't be such controversy surrounding children's beauty pageants, where the primary way of highlighting a child's beauty is by making her face more alluring through the use of makeup--Jon Bonet Ramsay wasn't the only girl to be sexualized in this way (plus, the fact that pre-teen girls head for the makeup counter when their own sexuality begins to awaken says a lot about the sexual dimension of cosmetics).

Having said all this, there are times when, as Freud said, "a cigar is just a cigar." Although many men might think so (especially those who can't seem to distinguish between Tang and testoserone), it's just not true that women always wear makeup to attract a mate or partner or even just an appreciative male gaze. Most women I know who wear makeup (and dress attractively) do so for the sake of other women, not men. And, no, it's not a sexual thing. Although it can be seen as a form of "competition," it isn't really (unless, of course, attracting a partner really is the aim). Could it be that it's just a way for women to revel and find pleasure in their own looks and in that of other women? Yes, I think so (and any man who's even slightly less shallow won't prevent the allure of this "sublime vanity" from allowing him to see "the person beneath the paint"). Is one of the side-effects of this allure that some men will gaze admiringly and say, "Wow. There goes some 'eye candy'?" Yes, I think that's true, too, of course (although I wouldn't quite phrase it that way myself). But it's just too much of a stretch to equate a women's desire to be attractive with her desire to be approached in a sexual manner. Beauty isn't always connected to the groin, you know?

Anyway, this is sounding like a rant. Like Alexandra says, some things we should just let go and let ourselves be.

Love,
CJ

Curly(SO) · Post by **Curly(SO)** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:52 am

I look like my Dad before I put my makeup on....I wonder if he would look like me if he put makeup on! (I do remember putting curlers in his hair when I was little

)

Curly(SO) · Post by **Curly(SO)** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:27 am

Could it be that it's just a way for women to revel and find pleasure in their own looks and in that of other women?

Yes, you are certainly right there. I like how I look like with makeup on. I make the effort to please myself, more than anyone else. In that sense, it isn't a mask, (only to cover up my Dad from shining through!) I am just accentuating what is already there.

I certainly think we revel in the looks of other women. look at all the womens magazines, full of pictures of women. I love looking at pictures of beautiful women. Look at mens magazines, they do not have tons of pictures of men (apart from magazines aimed at the gay market)). Why is this? I have often wondered about this.

Love,
Curly(SO)