Hi all! It has been ages since I have posted and I hope I can be more involved in the future.
This is my question. The last two times I have gone out to a cd function/night out with our local cd group it got back to me via several other people (some cd's and some so's) that a few people had made a few "not so nice" comments about my weight. I had a baby last year in Feb and it has been a real tough struggle to loose those baby pounds. I was never terribly thin or skinny to beging with, but I guess some don't approve. I am not totally obese and every time I leave the house I try to look as nice as I can. For the last two things I was dressed (I thought) pretty sharp in a really cool party skirt/silky top and nice heels. I always wear make up and always do my hair. So it was not just me looking like some slothy slob.
The thing that got me was I was probably wearing the exact same dress size as some of the crossdressers making those comments.
But the killer is I have found this to happen alot. It seems alot of crossdressers (either on the net or in real lfie) are quick to compliment or go on and on about a crossdresser who is a size 16 but yet when they see a gg the same size they snub her (at least her size).
I have found this happen, this double standard when it comes not only to weight but also things like age and wrinkles.
I am glad that cd guys in the community don't get this flack, but I wonder where or even why this double standard has to happen right in our community?
Out in the non crossdressing world it is no new information that women are expected to be this model of perfection while their husbands can be chubby or overweight. I can think of several sitcoms where it is skinny wife/fat husband. You almost kind of wish you would see a sitcom where it was the opposite.... just to make things equal.
As a supportive and enthusiastic gg in the community it sure makes me feel kind of bummed personally. And to know that I have heard this all before, it was just never directed right at me is an eye opener...
kathy in canada
Weird double standard that I am trying to understand....
Moderators: KimberlyS, Eileen (SO)
-
Oregon (SO)
- Miss Sapphire Goddess
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:27 pm
- Location: Canada
-
Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Kathy,
I am so sorry that has happened to you. And I have to tell you I am very surprised. I am a full time crossdresser, but I don't attend crossdresser functions so I have never been exposed to the kind of environment you are talking about.
Indeed, at a crossdresser I am continually promoting that our value as people is who we are inside. I think this is not only true of crossdressers, but all persons.
It is strange that a community of people would gather together in acceptance, then deny acceptance to those from whom they seek acceptance. I guess being overweight and a crossdresser makes me sensitive to your issue. And it is a strange irony that while I am not self concious at all about going out dressed in women's clothes, I am self concious about going out and looking fat. Something that never bothered me while in drab. Go figure.
Again, I am sorry that has happened to you and can only hope that the few that do act that way are not representive of us crossdressers as a whole.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I am so sorry that has happened to you. And I have to tell you I am very surprised. I am a full time crossdresser, but I don't attend crossdresser functions so I have never been exposed to the kind of environment you are talking about.
Indeed, at a crossdresser I am continually promoting that our value as people is who we are inside. I think this is not only true of crossdressers, but all persons.
It is strange that a community of people would gather together in acceptance, then deny acceptance to those from whom they seek acceptance. I guess being overweight and a crossdresser makes me sensitive to your issue. And it is a strange irony that while I am not self concious at all about going out dressed in women's clothes, I am self concious about going out and looking fat. Something that never bothered me while in drab. Go figure.
Again, I am sorry that has happened to you and can only hope that the few that do act that way are not representive of us crossdressers as a whole.
Love always,
Elizabeth
-
DonnaT
- Miss Great Goddess
- Posts: 8222
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:04 am
- Location: No. Virginia
Your little girl will be 1 year old in Feb. Congratulations Kathy.
I'm sure you looked quite lovely at the gathereing.
Sorry to hear that there were a 'few' choice comments made about your weight. I wonder how many was a few? 1, 2, 3?
One's too many, but lets not put every CD there in the same basket.
Note that these people would have made the same comments whether they were CDs or not. Some people just have no manners.
Why would they make such comments about a GG when they are so complimentary towards each other?
Besides being illmannered, they are there for support and to receive support. Compliments are going to be passed around like hors d'oevres, whether they are meant or not.
Then again, maybe they do deride one another behind each other's backs, it may be that it just doesn't get back to you. In fact, I'm pretty sure that anyone that would make rude comments about a GG will also make them about other CDs.
On that note, I believe it was also illmannered of those coming around and telling you what they heard. What's the point in that! To me, where it is very rude to make such comments, it's cruel to tell someone about such comments.
Does the group have a newsletter? I'd do a piece on proper manners and rude conversation in hopes that these bores read it and see the light.
I'm sure you looked quite lovely at the gathereing.
Sorry to hear that there were a 'few' choice comments made about your weight. I wonder how many was a few? 1, 2, 3?
One's too many, but lets not put every CD there in the same basket.
Note that these people would have made the same comments whether they were CDs or not. Some people just have no manners.
Why would they make such comments about a GG when they are so complimentary towards each other?
Besides being illmannered, they are there for support and to receive support. Compliments are going to be passed around like hors d'oevres, whether they are meant or not.
Then again, maybe they do deride one another behind each other's backs, it may be that it just doesn't get back to you. In fact, I'm pretty sure that anyone that would make rude comments about a GG will also make them about other CDs.
On that note, I believe it was also illmannered of those coming around and telling you what they heard. What's the point in that! To me, where it is very rude to make such comments, it's cruel to tell someone about such comments.
Does the group have a newsletter? I'd do a piece on proper manners and rude conversation in hopes that these bores read it and see the light.
DonnaT
-
Sally
- We Will Never Forget You - Rest in Peace
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:33 am
- Location: N.S.W. Australia
weird double standard that I'm trying to understand
Hello Kathy SO,
It's always disappointing when we hear of these double standards, but double standards exist amongst all walks of life, no better example do we see than politicians all over the world, whose collective motto seems to be, ' Do as I say, not as I do'.
Some people seem to see others as something different as to how we see ourselves in the mirror. We may be perfectly happy and content with how we are and how we look but others often see things different. Some people are experts at picking faults in other people whereas they think of themselves as faultless. It's a human trait which exists all too often in far too many people, but it's always been that way and probably always will. It doesn't just exist in the Crossdressing community or any other part of the GLBT communities, as you would well know, it's unfortunate, but as a person who has been the subject of ridicule and discrimination all my life at various times, one becomes immune to what others say and I find that not reacting to their small mindedness prevents me from coming down to their level.
What these people are saying about you and how they are thinking to cause them to say these things, says more about them than it does about you.
I've been involved actively in the TG community for many, many years now and it's no good saying one thing and meaning another, people there are no different to the rest of the community, we are just members of a group the same as any other group in the community, it's just that our cause varies from others, but in the TG community the same as any other group, people are subject to all the human attributes and failings just the same as the rest of the worlds population, what some people may perceive as a 'fault' in the other person may well be looked on as an attribute by the other person.
You've been a pillar of strength to so many people over the years, both online and personally and it's disappointing to see this happen to you from people who you put so much time into, trying to support them. It's also unfortunate that we live in a world where stereotypes are the norm, because applying stereotypes to people will never, and can never be true in all cases, taking it from male and female stereotypes to the vision of what people should look like. That is a very narrow, small minded attitude and thankfully there are a lot of us who don't live by those 'rules'.
We can't pick our relatives but we sure can pick our friends thankfully and so many of us around the world love and respect you more than you'll ever know.
I hope you and your family are all well and you get all the good things in life you so richly deserve.
Lots of love.
Sally.
It's always disappointing when we hear of these double standards, but double standards exist amongst all walks of life, no better example do we see than politicians all over the world, whose collective motto seems to be, ' Do as I say, not as I do'.
Some people seem to see others as something different as to how we see ourselves in the mirror. We may be perfectly happy and content with how we are and how we look but others often see things different. Some people are experts at picking faults in other people whereas they think of themselves as faultless. It's a human trait which exists all too often in far too many people, but it's always been that way and probably always will. It doesn't just exist in the Crossdressing community or any other part of the GLBT communities, as you would well know, it's unfortunate, but as a person who has been the subject of ridicule and discrimination all my life at various times, one becomes immune to what others say and I find that not reacting to their small mindedness prevents me from coming down to their level.
What these people are saying about you and how they are thinking to cause them to say these things, says more about them than it does about you.
I've been involved actively in the TG community for many, many years now and it's no good saying one thing and meaning another, people there are no different to the rest of the community, we are just members of a group the same as any other group in the community, it's just that our cause varies from others, but in the TG community the same as any other group, people are subject to all the human attributes and failings just the same as the rest of the worlds population, what some people may perceive as a 'fault' in the other person may well be looked on as an attribute by the other person.
You've been a pillar of strength to so many people over the years, both online and personally and it's disappointing to see this happen to you from people who you put so much time into, trying to support them. It's also unfortunate that we live in a world where stereotypes are the norm, because applying stereotypes to people will never, and can never be true in all cases, taking it from male and female stereotypes to the vision of what people should look like. That is a very narrow, small minded attitude and thankfully there are a lot of us who don't live by those 'rules'.
We can't pick our relatives but we sure can pick our friends thankfully and so many of us around the world love and respect you more than you'll ever know.
I hope you and your family are all well and you get all the good things in life you so richly deserve.
Lots of love.
Sally.
Watch nature, because it’s our greatest teacher, it moves and flows and moves on again. We can never be free until we disengage, so allow life to flow as you find it. The way it is, is the way it is.
-
CJ
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3562
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
- Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Hi all,
Kathy,
Like Elizabeth, I've never been to any kind of support group meeting so I don't really know the environment that well. I will agree with you, though; a meeting where men who dress as women gather for support and community-building is the very last place I'd expect to encounter appearance-based haughtiness and judgmental putdowns.
Please, Kathy, don't let it faze you. In any barrel, there'll always be a few pickles more sour than the others. You've long been a model of tolerance, acceptance, and enthusiasm for the CD community; it's gals such as yourself (and many other SO's here) that help us see just how much worth we have as human beings. Know that these feelings are returned, the criticisms of a few bitter souls notwithstanding.
On a more personal note (and this really is but my own preference), I've never understood what the problem is with a few extra pounds. To me, there's nothing quite as alluring in women as their characteristic, well, roundness. It speaks to the bounty of nature like little else can. Artists, from the ancient and anonymous sculptor of the Willendorf Venus to Rubens himself, have always tried to do this bounty justice. The current obssession--over the last twenty years or so--for the waif look (and its attendant eating disorders) is a "cocaine chic" that's born out of our parallel obssession with the culture of youth. Sadly, it speaks of deprivation, not bounty. Also, as an adult male, I prefer the company of women, not young girls; the body or the looks of young girls are pretty standard whereas the body or the looks of adult women come in a blessed variety of wonderful shapes and sizes (yes, size 16 definitely included).
As I said (at the time) to a couple of my GF's who'd fallen prey to this preoccupation with their weight, "lose it only because you want to for yourself--for your own health, for your own way of seeing yourself, for your own sense of identity--not because of what anyone else (including me) tells you you should look like... nor even because of what you think other people think you should look like." It's hard enough being a woman (or a man) in this world without our having to constantly keep checking what a woman or a man is supposed to look like. I know this sounds paradoxical, coming as it does from a man who occasionally tries to look like a woman. But there it is.
So, Kathy, just fly with it. Be proud of who and what you are--a woman, something we can never truly know what it's like to be--and don't put too much stock in the opinions and criticisms of people you'd be apt to consider shallow or superficial anyway. In their own time, these folks will age, and get wrinkles, and grow fat (or rail-thin, as the case may be) and their views on what an ideal body is supposed to be will either mellow or come back to haunt them. We're not perfect; I'm not perfect; you're not perfect. And thank God for that.
Love,
CJ
P.S.
I send my best wishes to Cleo on her upcoming first birthday. If she inherits even an ounce of her mother's tolerance, acceptance, and openness, then the future will never have looked so good.
Kathy,
Like Elizabeth, I've never been to any kind of support group meeting so I don't really know the environment that well. I will agree with you, though; a meeting where men who dress as women gather for support and community-building is the very last place I'd expect to encounter appearance-based haughtiness and judgmental putdowns.
Please, Kathy, don't let it faze you. In any barrel, there'll always be a few pickles more sour than the others. You've long been a model of tolerance, acceptance, and enthusiasm for the CD community; it's gals such as yourself (and many other SO's here) that help us see just how much worth we have as human beings. Know that these feelings are returned, the criticisms of a few bitter souls notwithstanding.
On a more personal note (and this really is but my own preference), I've never understood what the problem is with a few extra pounds. To me, there's nothing quite as alluring in women as their characteristic, well, roundness. It speaks to the bounty of nature like little else can. Artists, from the ancient and anonymous sculptor of the Willendorf Venus to Rubens himself, have always tried to do this bounty justice. The current obssession--over the last twenty years or so--for the waif look (and its attendant eating disorders) is a "cocaine chic" that's born out of our parallel obssession with the culture of youth. Sadly, it speaks of deprivation, not bounty. Also, as an adult male, I prefer the company of women, not young girls; the body or the looks of young girls are pretty standard whereas the body or the looks of adult women come in a blessed variety of wonderful shapes and sizes (yes, size 16 definitely included).
As I said (at the time) to a couple of my GF's who'd fallen prey to this preoccupation with their weight, "lose it only because you want to for yourself--for your own health, for your own way of seeing yourself, for your own sense of identity--not because of what anyone else (including me) tells you you should look like... nor even because of what you think other people think you should look like." It's hard enough being a woman (or a man) in this world without our having to constantly keep checking what a woman or a man is supposed to look like. I know this sounds paradoxical, coming as it does from a man who occasionally tries to look like a woman. But there it is.
So, Kathy, just fly with it. Be proud of who and what you are--a woman, something we can never truly know what it's like to be--and don't put too much stock in the opinions and criticisms of people you'd be apt to consider shallow or superficial anyway. In their own time, these folks will age, and get wrinkles, and grow fat (or rail-thin, as the case may be) and their views on what an ideal body is supposed to be will either mellow or come back to haunt them. We're not perfect; I'm not perfect; you're not perfect. And thank God for that.
Love,
CJ
P.S.
I send my best wishes to Cleo on her upcoming first birthday. If she inherits even an ounce of her mother's tolerance, acceptance, and openness, then the future will never have looked so good.
-
Beauty
- Retired Site Administrator
- Posts: 3662
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:30 am
- Location: Northern VA
- Contact:
Re: Weird double standard that I am trying to understand....
Hi Kathy,
I'd like to start off by agreeing with Sally. OMG. Maybe you have no idea, but you are so hugely important in my growth Kathy. You were like the first SO I'd ever seen online who posted about accepting their hubby as a CD. So what I'm trying to say is I feel, even if you were a gal who was overweight (which I don't believe you are), I'd would not see it because you are so truly incredibly gorgeous inside and out. Both your husband and child get to see one of the most beautiful women in the world everyday.
I hope all of us are as lucky. I also hope my comments read as sincerely as I felt them. 
Ok. I just re-read your post (which proves my paragraph above is true about you as a person) but I have a question now because I really only saw one question. You said that cd guys in the community don't get flack about being overweight and I think that's very true. I was hoping you could explain more about the where or why it has to happen right in our community part? I'm only asking because I could think of it a few ways and if I'm wrong then I didn't answer your question.
While I wait I respect and understand why you you'd feel bummed personally. The wisdom of the others who've posted above, I hope, will help you not feel as bummed. I will say this eye opener is a good thing though because for the longest I've noticed that and the way if you can pass others "can" treat you, but that's another topic.
I hope my question made sense. I'm going to cross my fingers about you coming back here more. We'd love to see you join us more.
Beauty
I'd like to start off by agreeing with Sally. OMG. Maybe you have no idea, but you are so hugely important in my growth Kathy. You were like the first SO I'd ever seen online who posted about accepting their hubby as a CD. So what I'm trying to say is I feel, even if you were a gal who was overweight (which I don't believe you are), I'd would not see it because you are so truly incredibly gorgeous inside and out. Both your husband and child get to see one of the most beautiful women in the world everyday.
I hope all of us are as lucky. I also hope my comments read as sincerely as I felt them. Ok. I just re-read your post (which proves my paragraph above is true about you as a person) but I have a question now because I really only saw one question. You said that cd guys in the community don't get flack about being overweight and I think that's very true. I was hoping you could explain more about the where or why it has to happen right in our community part? I'm only asking because I could think of it a few ways and if I'm wrong then I didn't answer your question.
While I wait I respect and understand why you you'd feel bummed personally. The wisdom of the others who've posted above, I hope, will help you not feel as bummed. I will say this eye opener is a good thing though because for the longest I've noticed that and the way if you can pass others "can" treat you, but that's another topic.
I hope my question made sense. I'm going to cross my fingers about you coming back here more. We'd love to see you join us more.
Beauty
Her very first Birthday 
how wonderful 
-
Ahzz
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 256
- Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:53 am
Seriously, though, cattiness isn't very ladylike. -
Kay(SO)
- E-mail address not valid - Contact Admin
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:03 am
- Location: North Carolina
Kathy(SO),
I was thinking about this for a while and just wanted to toss in my thoughts. I know for my husband and listening to him talk, he has this "ideal" view of what an attractive woman looks like and that is what he aspires to be when dressing. That ideal doesn't include what I like to call "mommly looking" ladies (like me too!). It includes well figured ladies that are not necessarily rail thin but they certainly don't look like me after having twins. Anyway, I do find it ironic but then I also remind myself that he doesn't see what I see when looking at him dressed. His vision of himself and other CD'rs is usually somewhat distorted. But, I let it lie so I don't spoil it for him. I do help him to look his best but he doesn't look like his ideal and never will.
Kay(SO)
I was thinking about this for a while and just wanted to toss in my thoughts. I know for my husband and listening to him talk, he has this "ideal" view of what an attractive woman looks like and that is what he aspires to be when dressing. That ideal doesn't include what I like to call "mommly looking" ladies (like me too!). It includes well figured ladies that are not necessarily rail thin but they certainly don't look like me after having twins. Anyway, I do find it ironic but then I also remind myself that he doesn't see what I see when looking at him dressed. His vision of himself and other CD'rs is usually somewhat distorted. But, I let it lie so I don't spoil it for him. I do help him to look his best but he doesn't look like his ideal and never will.
Kay(SO)
-
Gelinda
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 441
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:31 pm
kATHY (SO)
I agree with most of the others. It is not right. I had my first Granddaughter in Feb of last year.
I will never go to a CD event, If they are going to get that type of problem. My very loving wife is a size 22 to 24 and I am a rather large person myself. My wife use to be a size 30 and weigh in at over 330 pounds and is a 190 now. I was at 320 myself at one time and am now at 200 but I was at 165 pounds.
I think it is wrong to judge people on the size and weight. You need to judge them on their inner self and actions. Weight and size are only the physical things not the real person.
Gelinda.
I agree with most of the others. It is not right. I had my first Granddaughter in Feb of last year.
I will never go to a CD event, If they are going to get that type of problem. My very loving wife is a size 22 to 24 and I am a rather large person myself. My wife use to be a size 30 and weigh in at over 330 pounds and is a 190 now. I was at 320 myself at one time and am now at 200 but I was at 165 pounds.
I think it is wrong to judge people on the size and weight. You need to judge them on their inner self and actions. Weight and size are only the physical things not the real person.
Gelinda.
* * Email address not current as of 05-05-2009. Please contact SilverLady(SO) immediately! See http://crossdressers-forum.com/forums/v ... php?t=9237 for further information. Thank You!! * *
-
Virginia
- Goddess of the Universe
- Posts: 5543
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:06 pm
- Location: Strange Magic Hill
Kathy,
Yes, you are a pillar of this community but evidently at this meeting either they do not realize you are a true SO ambassador for us or could be they are just truly stupid!!!! Rude no doubt, but add stupidity to that an you get a real bore! I know that it bothers you, but you are woman enough to let it go and you know down deep in your heart that you are loved and admired and as some one on this forum noted, every morning when you roll out of bed and your feet hit the floor, you are what "we" can only dream about - A REAL WOMAN!
Love ya,
Virginia
Yes, you are a pillar of this community but evidently at this meeting either they do not realize you are a true SO ambassador for us or could be they are just truly stupid!!!! Rude no doubt, but add stupidity to that an you get a real bore! I know that it bothers you, but you are woman enough to let it go and you know down deep in your heart that you are loved and admired and as some one on this forum noted, every morning when you roll out of bed and your feet hit the floor, you are what "we" can only dream about - A REAL WOMAN!
Love ya,
Virginia
First star to the right, then straight on 'till mornin!
-
Missy
- Miss Silver Goddess
- Posts: 37
- Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:54 pm
- Location: US
Kathy:
I agree with everything our sisters have said above. My only addition to the excellent posts above would be to say in everyday language - "My experience has been that there is at least one jerk in every crowd." You obviously have beat the averages by running into more than one at a time. You are a much better person than them. I know because I have read your forum.
I thank you for being you!
Best regards,
Missy
I agree with everything our sisters have said above. My only addition to the excellent posts above would be to say in everyday language - "My experience has been that there is at least one jerk in every crowd." You obviously have beat the averages by running into more than one at a time. You are a much better person than them. I know because I have read your forum.
I thank you for being you!
Best regards,
Missy
-
Jadeanne
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1059
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 10:19 pm
- Location: Western NY, USA
Hi all,
Kathy, I'm sorry that the cd group had those immature "Shallow Hals".
There are medical and/or genetic conditions, other circumstances etc. which keep GGs from resembling supermodels (less than 1% of the population). People are people first, no matter what their appearance is. The inner person is extremely more important than the exterior.
Just my view,
Jadeanne
Kathy, I'm sorry that the cd group had those immature "Shallow Hals".
There are medical and/or genetic conditions, other circumstances etc. which keep GGs from resembling supermodels (less than 1% of the population). People are people first, no matter what their appearance is. The inner person is extremely more important than the exterior.
Just my view,
Jadeanne