Crossdressers-Haven.com

Hi all,

I mentioned the question of flexibility elsewhere on the forum a couple of weeks ago. I was wondering what your thoughts on this were. By "flexibility," I meant, and was specifically referring to, our ability to reach certain compromises regarding our CD'ing or our partner's CD'ing.

Couples are often polarized on this issue. A CD will often say: "This is who I am; I have to do this; you have to accept this, if you love me for who I am." His partner will often reply: "I love you for who you are, but this freaks me out; I don't really want to be a part of this; I'm already plenty mad and hurt that you hid this from me for so long."

Assuming a couple is capable of healthy communication, is there room for compromise and negotiation when we're dealing with such fundamental aspects of who we are (meaning both CD's and SO's)? If there is such room to maneuver, how do you, personally, go about it? Do either you or your spouse ever reach a point where, despite the CD'ing (or the desire to CD), your emotional needs are addressed well enough for you to think you can continue to grow in the relationship? Again, I ask this of both CD's and SO's, here.

Any input is appreciated.

Love,
CJ

CJ,

Of paramount importance here is the ability to communicate. And when I say communicate, I'm talking being totally open and honest in doing so. I think that in a lot of the communication that goes on between a CD and his spouse one or both are STILL holding back feelings that they are either reluctant to express or fearful to bring out.

Those of you who are already familiar with my own personal situation know that even though we are on good terms regarding everything else, my wife refuses to discuss (in a CIVIL manner) anything to do with my crosdressing without it usually becoming somewhat hostile. She also refuses to read anything else about it, has told me NOT to write her any more letters about it, still maintains that I'M the one who has a problem - not her, and is apparently under the impression that it can be "cured" (which we are all aware is WRONG!).

However, to answer your question, for those who DO have a free-flowing dialog , yes, I do believe there is room to "manuver" and to make compromises that are agreeable and equitable to both. I'm aware that most all crossdressers would love nothing more than to have their wives participate in their dressing activities. But the reality of the matter is that not all partners of CDs are comfortable in doing so, and even less are comfortable with any form of sexual activity when the CD is dressed.

For a lot of us our crossdressing needs can be met by dressing in the privacy of our own homes - either with or without the wife's participation (depending on whether she's comfortable with seeing us dressed) WITHOUT causing any adverse effect to either party's emotional needs. For others this could extend to going out to support group meetings, shopping, etc. In other words, whatever is comfortable and agreeable to BOTH partners. The ONE place that I see as being a big factor in having an effect on the emotional problems with partners is when crossdressing is brought into the bedroom. It takes a VERY special woman to enjoy anything sexual when their husband is dressed as a woman and for this reason I strongly recommend that crossdressing never be included in any sexual activities UNLESS the female involved is totally comfortable with it.

Dixie http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

I think in any relashionship there has to be give and take, be it with a friend, family member or SO. The cding issue therefore, as I see it, is just one peice of a partners needs, and therefore, like anything else, give and take is required.

I realize that Jean-P and I are only starting on this long path, but we (alright I'll admit it, mainly me) have set up some boundries.

I have asked him to let me know what he wants to do. What is most important now, and what he thinks can wait. I have also asked for some time to think about, and really see how I feel about things. If I know in advance which are most important to him, then maybe, slowly, I can get my head around them.

If Jean-P said " This is me and deal with it", I don't know what I would do. As I have said before, I know it hard on the CDers, but it is no picnic from this end either. Comunication is the key. Along with a strong commitment to each other, respect and love. If all of these things are present, I couldn't imagaine someone saying " this is the way it is, so just suck it up and deal with it"

Jean-P has resently had his "trans switch " turned on. I imagaine it is quite different for someone who has known all their life, and finally come to except themselves. I can see why people who have been struggaling with this their whole life would want everyone to come to terms with it right away. All I can say to that is, it took you how long to come to terms with yourself? Give your loved ones some time.

Just my thoughts...

Sinjoy(so)

Hi all,

Thanks Dixie, Sinjoy.

You know, Dixie, I've heard the SO's say this here pretty often, how they love and accept their CD'ing mate for who he is--that they have compassion for him--but that, even so, that doesn't necessarily mean they're eager to embark on this kind of quirky voyage with them, full speed ahead. That's why I think yours is a sensible approach, very gradual and as non-threatening as possible. Still, having said this, there's a possibility (and this may, for example, be part of accepting who your wife is, I guess) that, no matter which way you may present CD'ing to your spouse, your spouse will want none of it. As I said in my post above, it's just too much a fundamental part of who we are to be able to modify it so easily. It's true of CD's; it's also true of SO's.

Both you and Sinjoy (and anyone else who believes this) are right, though, I think; open, honest communication is the bedrock of any relationship. If, for whatever reasons, the two halves of a couple are incapable of talking with each other and of listening to each other--of having their own experience validated, and recognized, through the knowledge that they're being truly heard--the relationship may be headed for a bumpy ride (to say the least). Moreover, it could even be that CD'ing has little or no part to play in those difficulties or, at least, that it isn't their main focus.

Sinjoy,

I agree; give and take (or flexibility) matters. Very much so. In all our relationships. The reason I keep coming back to this question (like a tongue probing a hole left by a recently extracted tooth, it seems) is that I'm still trying to figure out, strictly as a CD, if it's possible to be flexible in our fundamental being. In other words, I know I can (and must) "give and take" when it comes to what I do, but can I do so when it comes to who I am, in my most intimate self? Of course, I fully apply this to both CD's and SO's; when an SO says (or thinks), "I just cannot deal with this," she does so from the same place a CD does when he says, "I cannot help but be." Some people (okay, some CD's) have likened their gender variance to their sexual orientation; it's not something over which they have much control. On the other hand (and, to me, even more obviously so), an SO's negative reaction upon seeing her man presenting himself as a woman isn't very hard to understand (assuming she's heterosexual). It's in these very (almost private) centers of our own beings that I'm still wondering if flexibility is possible. I really don't know. If it turns out it isn't possible, what shape will then take the flexibility, the "give and take," required for a couple (and for the two people concerned, individually) to thrive and to grow? Questions, questions...

In your case (as in the case of quite a few other SO's here), you seem to have been able to establish certain boundaries. You haven't mentioned Jean-P.'s reaction to them (or to your expressed need for time to wrap your brain around this), but I'm thinking that, if you communicate as well as you seem to with each other, you're that much closer to "building a solid house" together. I wish you well.

I find it a bit sad that Love(SO) doesn't hang around the forum too much, lately. I know all this was a central concern of hers, as well. We both tried to bring these issues to light on the forum but our points--yes, we did, indeed, have an "agenda"--got lost in the testosterone-induced static (sorry, guys, I don't mean to offend; I say this tongue-in-cheek).

Anyway, I'll shut up now. The sun is out; I'm done for the day; I have four days off ahead of me; and I'm blabbering away (as usual).

Love,
CJ

Hi CJ

I agree with Sinjoy's comment about the give and take in any relationship. I think without that the relationship would be only one-sided, which in my opinion would not be very healthy.

Having said this and since CDing is all new to me I guess I struggle with a couple of things in my relationship with Elandra. One being the sex thing with Elandra all dressed, and I see by reading other postings that the majority of SO's seem to have a problem with that as well.

My other subject is whether Elandra becomes clean shaven IE: shaving off all of his facial hair as he has a goatee and mustache. Although last night I think we may have come up with a compromise. The compromise is that during the summer he will be clean shaven and come the first day of fall he will grow it back.

You know I believe that you should pick your battles and that in any relationship there is give and take. And perhaps my not wanting the sex while Elandra is dressed or the clean shaven face is my insecurites IE: if he does shave all his facial hair will he perfer to be dressed as a woman all the time 24-7. Although I know he has said NO that isn't the case, but you know that little angel on my shoulder keeps whispering in my ear "He wants to become a woman 24-7 !"

So now the struggle for me begins. Am I being the ONE who is putting the demands on the relationship. The partner who WON'T compromise. And I also think am I not letting Elandra grow into herself? Explore this gift she has been given ? Then the other angel on my shoulder says" HEY !!! If I don't express myself will I explode at one point? Are my needs being met?
We do have an open and honest communication going between us but there are somethings that are hard for me to tell Elandra for fear of hurting him.

So far this is the only two things that I have struggled with and wonder if I am the one being unreasonable? The one who won't compromise? I have said in my intro on another posting that I feel in love with Elandra's ways, the kind, gentle sensitive part of him, and I for the most part do except him but there are some things that I am confused about.

Well I hope that I haven't gone off the topic. You all will have to forgive me for my verbal diarrhea here as it has only been the last few months that Elandra has come out, and I have had no one to spout off to.

Hugs
Charlie (SO)

Yes there is room for healthy compromise in any relationship. Boundries are important but I think they need to be able to change as the relationship grows.
When My hubby and I first started on our CD road together, he asked me what did I feel I could be comfortable with- I told him panties. Probaably because at that point I did not have to even really see them. As I learned what CDing ment and what my husband wanted from it the boundries changed. Ok now I can accept you wearing a bra some of the time and maybe an nightgown once in a while, as y acceptance grew the boundries all but disapeared.
My husband expressed a desire for me to create these boundries since he felt it would help with my acceptance and help him not go wild with my show of acceptance.
We are always talking about any changes that might come up, he wanted to pierce his ears, he did not rush out and do it but we talked about it for a couple of weeks before he did it. The talking more involved how would others feel about it and what would they say at work.
Things like shaving his body, well we really did not talk about that one and he did kind of spring it on me, but I got used to it and he agrees that in the summer he will grow back the legs, now if I could just get him to shave more and quite poking me with those cactus's...LOL
You just have to have a good sense of houmor about this all.

As to intimacy, well this has to be worked out by each individual couple. I will say that once I found that other women were OK with it I felt it gave me permission to go ahead and try it and not feel it was something to be embarassed or ashamed of. Between 2 loving adults it is fine to try new things and if one of the adults is not comfortable with it then say so. Don't feel you must do this to please your spouse, only do it out of true love and desire. For us adding this into our love life -some of the time- has enabled us to be more open with what we want and maybe some other things we would like to try. and after 31 years of marriage that is a big step forward! And Cindy maybe just try a small thing like panties or a little lipstick and my husbands fav long dangly earrings. Don't feel like you must invite all of her into your bed. take it slow. What goes on can come off it you are feeling overwellmed by it. Other wives I have talked to about this find it can be a very erotic experience and No I don't feel like I am a lesbian, under all the trimmings and lace is still my very male husband. Hope this is not too much info here......

Honey (sO)

Hi all,

God, this is great! People talking about deeper issues. Excellent!

Charlie,

No, I don't think you are the intolerant one at all. Speaking as a CD, any door in a relationship that opens up to who I am, truly, deeply (including my just being able to talk without fear about who I am), is evidence of my partner's love, compassion, and tolerance. The thing about physical changes (even just shaving a goatee) is that it takes a couple's situation outside of the private realm and into the public one. It invites the gaze (and the possible judgment) of others. This, obviously, quite aside from your own preferences regarding the physical attributes you seek in a mate.

Yes, intimacy and sex when your partner is dressed is a thorny issue. I agree with Dixie on this one. In the end (and even crossdressers must admit this), there is not a single situation where it's ever okay to force a partner to participate in forms of sexuality that aren't her cup of tea. What I find so tough about this one is that sexual intimacy is one of the most profound ways we communicate our love to, our desire to be with, our partner. When that's removed (or becomes awkward and uncomfortable), whatever else is there (such as respect and friendship, for example) has to be very strong, indeed, for the relationship to survive. In the end, it almost looks like this: can an SO grow, as a person, when she's partnered to a man whom, though she loves him very much, she's sexually incompatible with? Because, for many CD's, crossdressing is tied to their sexuality. There are many who will deny this but, personally, I think they're fooling themselves; they're afraid of shocking their mates (or potential mates) or worse, facing rejection; however much people may say otherwise, nobody relishes the prospect of being sexually alone. The intimacy of sex (and, by "sex," I mean, like Honey has pointed out above, anything that brings pleasure to two loving adults) makes us feel loved in a way little else can. Still, having said this, such intimacy has to be something both partners want (or are willing to try, at the very least). A CD can cry in his beer all he wants, but if his wife or girlfriend isn't into this, there's nothing he can do. It's too much a part of the fundamental aspect of who we are, as I mentioned above. And experimenting, when it's done with much reticence, just makes things worse.

In my own relationships, CD'ing sometimes played a sexual part and sometimes didn't (or not as much, anyway). Mostly, it depended on where my SO's head was at. Some were okay with this, some not as much. One just took the ball and ran with it (and it actually scared the pants off me--literally! ). But this always mattered above all else: we talked about what we wanted, what we didn't like, and what made us uncomfortable. We understood that there isn't a single person alive today who didn't feel some occasional discomfort at opening himself or herself up and talking about so personal a matter as his or her sexual preferences. Nobody's reinventing the wheel, here.

Anyway, all this to say, Charlie, that you're not the one who's unwilling to compromise. Certainly, it doesn't sound as though you're unwilling to compromise on things or issues you feel it's possible to come to some agreement to. As for the "fundamental" aspects of who you are--where compromise is often much more difficult--why should you hold yourself to a standard that's any different from that to which a CD holds himself? It wouldn't make sense. And you wouldn't be who you are. That there are things you find hard to tell Elandra for fear of hurting him is exactly the kind of thinking that's gotten many a closeted CD into trouble. Sharing how you feel about this or that with your partner may, indeed, hurt him in the moment (but, even that, you can't be sure of until you do) but if you're open, honest, and loving (and he feels your love), he'll be grateful that you feel you can be who you truly are with him. In the end, that's all any of us ever really want, no?

Sharon,

My heart goes out to you, to both you and Shannon. I'm obviously no Dr. Phil when it comes to relationships (even though my own relationships have usually been good), so I don't know what to say or how to point the way to "fixing" your relationship's communication issues. I know it's a sore point, as in any relationship. I'm not a "fixer-upper" nor a therapist nor a counsellor. Just a concerned friend who's come to respect and love both you and Shannon (although I don't know Shannon as well). I'm curious (and you can tell me to mind my own business if you want to): when's the last time you and Shannon spent some time together, in a "safe" place, away from the mundane routine of your lives? When's the last time you and he discovered something new--some new place, some new activity--together, rather than each on your own? When's the last time you both found yourselves in a situation where the love that exists between you could find a voice even though you, yourselves, felt no need to say anything to each other? When's the last time you touched Shannon's hand for no other reason than to feel the warmth of his skin? Our ceaseless thinking and worrying often makes us blind to the beauty that's right there, next to us. And this is true of any of us, myself included. I wish you happiness, Sharon. I just need to say that, often, this happiness is in the journey, not necessarily in the destination. May you fare well.

Love to all,
CJ

Hi everyone,

This one has got my old brain ticking over!

When Ed told me about his CDing, he presented it to me in a way that was flexible. He did say:

This is who I am; I have to do this

but instead of saying

you have to accept this, if you love me for who I am

he said 'I wanted you to know, but if you don't like it, I will be able to put it back in the closet' (meaning he would carry on doing it privately, like Dixie I suppose, and as he had always done up to that point)

It was at this point I got on the old poota to do some research, found this wonderful forum and worked out that my hubby's CDing wasn't going to be a problem...with many thanks to CJ and Dixie who were the first to help me out!

However, if I hadn't been able to get my head round CDing...do I think our relationship could have continued to thrive? The answer to that is yes, as we already had a close and loving relationship without me knowing about the CDing. It is a fundamental part of who my husband is, but not the whole of him. There are many things that are a fundamental part of my hubby...his love of technology, his passion for our car, lots of things I have no interest in and would refuse to know anything about, but our relationship still works! (That is not a very good analogy, but the best I can think of at the moment )

Me and Ed were lucky, he came to me, with his CDing with no demands and with flexibility. I had suspected Ed of CDing for a short while about a year previously (he told me he wasn't, so I accepted that, at the time). When I first got the idea that he might be a CDer, my initial reaction was that I would be fine with it, but just needed to know. So, when Ed did tell the truth I was actually semi-prepared and gut instinct was that we'd integrate it into our lives. I know we were very, very lucky not to have had the problems that some people have. Of course, a few weird feelings have emerged about it all, but I've talked them out with Ed and on here.

That doesn't really answer your question CJ, sorry! BTW, I love your avatar, you look so young! (You are young, I know )

Have a great Easter Weekend,

Love,
Curly(SO)

Hiya,

There were some really cool posts of openness that I adored in this thread. It's really refreshing.

As I started this post my wife walked upstairs and I asked if she really had any boundaries about me being TG'd (other than changing my sex) and her answer was no. It's good she said that because I was going to tell you all I don't really agree with having boundaries.

Boundaries are walls. I am really a very expression oriented person and I can't handle or cope with walls in a relationship. It's not that I'm great or anything. It's more like because, pour moi, walls in a relationship with me mean I can't be creative and I can't be me. I'd slowly wilt away or die if I couldn't be me.

What I also do feel though is that if I'm in a relationship where my wife doesn't set or have boundaries that aren't boundaries for me too I'd better darned well be very appreciative of this and be very respectful to her areas of sensitivity. Like most of the ladies here my wife drew lines in the sand and those slowly disappeared. I coped with this by understanding, based on research I'd done, if I was consistent with showing her how much I loved her (with actions, not words only) and that other than a gender variance I was the man she'd hope she'd marry one day, that eventually she'd not draw lines in the sand anymore. If those lines stayed drawn, I know me, I wouldn't have been able to stay in the relationship. I've always been weird that way. I love my wife enough to want her to be happy and on top of that we haven't had any children. So it's a little easier to say I would have not stayed in my marriage. Back to what I was saying before I love her enough to let her find someone else if I'm not going to make her happy.

That's sounds so self-serving. "Oh how good of you to be so strong to let her go because you want her to be happy." I'm personally sticking my finger down my throat because that notion makes me want to puke. I don't mean it that way though. What I mean is I would be miserable as a person if I could not be me. I love who I am and I had to work like hell to do that. So now I have a mechanism inside of me that causes me to withdraw to protect the me I love and not walk down the nightmarish road I once travailed to walked down in my 20s. I couldn't even look in the mirror that's how much I didn't like me. The good news is I'm no longer that way and am very confident, the bad part is it stinks that this mechanism that allowed me to be a happy person is so protective now, I don't let anything keep me from being me. So part of that is, even if I'm going to cry for a million months because my heart is breaking, by the grace of God I have had the ability to let someone go if they can't accept me for me.

I have no boundaries for my wife other than she not go out and be with someone else. That boundary is what a relationship is based on though. Within that I don't tell her what she can't or can't do. "I want to change my hair. I want it short." Ok, well I like long hair, but if that's what she wants I don't care. I'm in love with her. She can do what she wants. "I think I may be a man in a woman's body." Ummm. ok. I don't know how to deal with this, but if you're not talking about leaving the relationship and we can still be a man and wife then I'm ok with that. "I want my mom to move in." We discussed those issues before we got married to find out if we were compatible. "I want to go horse back riding and you hate horses." (I don't hate horses, btw) I feel free to tell her I don't wanna ride a horse, I'd prefer if you went without me, but if it means a lot to you then I'll go with you, but please don't expect me to love it, but I do love you so I'll go. There are so many variances of acceptance, boundaries, pet peeves, nuances in a relationship, variability in growth, perceptions of marriage that it's impossible to put any relationship in one big bag and group it together.

I'm just saying that I'm not a person who can live in a relationship with boundaries. If my wife could not see me dressed I'd be ok with that, I think? Well, no that's a lie. When I started dressing more my wife was like, "I want my man back." my answer was I'm the same person I was, your "man" is still here. I knew there was no way she could understand what I meant because she hadn't done the research I did about TG'd relationships, but I felt if she trusted me enough and knew how much I loved her that she'd eventually acquiesce and realize she'd given up nothing and gained so much more from me as a husband. I can't begin to tell you the gratitude I feel for her accepting me unconditionally. All my life I'd dreamed of unconditional love and by the grace of God, he answered that prayer. It took hard work by me and her, but we are there now. I pray it will stay this way, but life is change. It's the only things that's guaranteed (I got that from Bridges of Madison County).

What I've learned to respect from reading the forum is people who don't deal with day to day acceptance of a TG'd lifestyle also share the same love those who have unconditional love do. It's love for goodness sake. There is no true definition of love, like there is no true definition of a good marriage, good sex, or good. It's all based on personal perception and other stuff that I'm not intellectual enough to state.

My wife and I had a totally bad spell the first couple of years our marriage. She felt it revolved around the CD'ing. I knew it revolved around my CD'ing and her not loving herself. At a certain point I was starting to detach. Our marriage was ending. We were weeks away from not being together anymore, that's how close it got. I wouldn't budge either. I know I'm a good husband. I know I'm a good guy. I know I can give a woman as much as she can take when it comes to love, openness and honesty. I felt I was being told, I wasn't all of those things. So I prayed and prayed and prayed for strength because I didn't want to end a marriage. It's a vow between us and God to stay together forever through the worst of times. Finally I broke and asked God for forgiveness because I was miserable every day. I had a wife who wouldn't open up to me and it was killing me a little every day. In the traditional sense it was an orgasm (la petit mort). I was dying a little bit everyday.

The climax did indeed come alright. I won't ever forget the night. We decided we were going to sell the house. She went upstairs to take a bath and set up candles and I went downstairs and watched the rain fall in the night. I didn't want to be near her at all. I can still hear the rain. It was so solemn. I felt as if I was starting again and the rain was symbolic of a cleansing. I was interupted from this moment by her as she asked me to come upstairs while she took her bath. I did, but I can remember my attitude... lol.. I was like, "It doesn't matter. This is really very over." I didn't say that though, but I think she did see I had detached. Obviously since we're still together now you can tell I was still open to her, but I knew she was going to have to change, not me. Either she could or she couldn't and I loved her with all my heart either way. Perhaps it took that night for me to finally not accept her allowing herself to portray herself as the only victim. I know I was always allowing her to feel my CD'ing was the reason she was unhappy, but I knew it was more than that.

That night she promised to work harder to hear me more and I promised to not to allow her to play victim. There was no makeup sex and in fact I never realized how hard it is to put a relationship back together when you mentally start leaving it. I didn't even feel, mentally, like I was married to her anymore.

Two years later my wife and I have never been better, have never loved each other more and been open about why, and have never had less boundaries than we do now. It took work though. When we find boundaries we don't just tear them down. We plan on how to remove them. This has done us so much good. We are now partners who accept unconditionally and we more importantly we are best friends.

I relate with Sharon a lot. My wife and I were great as long as we didn't talk about anything personal. When I'd do that it always ended in an argument. The good news is it can be worked out if you're both willing to live through the arguments to get to the much needed communication that will be needed to keep a marriage strong and together. Like with CD'ing many of us aren't capable of explaining ourselves to our SOs. I think the same thing happens with people who are a bit walled off. It gets frustrating to some people and so they shut down, put the wally up and will do anything to make you go away. Then they feel down on themselves when they see how much they've hurt the one they love the most. It turns into a vicious cycle and eventually becomes an unrecognized habit. I know Shannon loves you more than anything. I pray you two will work through this together. You both deserve the best. I hope you both realize you have it in your possession right now.

If you read all of this you are amazing. If you didn't it's ok. I understand. Sorry for taking up all of this real state.

Beauty

Hi all,

Beauty,

Shoot! You made me cry. I'm still "tearing up." Like the rain falling in the night, it's a cleansing experience. Thank you, thank you.

You don't know how long I've waited to see and hear some of this stuff on the forum. It makes me feel alive and real.

Curly,

You and Ed seem to be in a very good place and I'm so happy that, in whatever little way I could, I (along with others, here) have been helpful to you. You had me laughing my butt off... "the old poota," eh? It took me a few seconds to figure that one out. I was about to Google the word.

Thanks for the compliments on my avatar. Yes, I do look younger there (I used a heavy foundation... the pic is a "virtual makeover"), but I am young, in many ways (maybe in too many ways ). Funny, someone--a colleague who occasionally visits the site--asked me if I could sing Over The Rainbow for her. I don't know why.

Sharon,

Your three paragraphs say much. Touching is a form of communication. But it often isn't enough. Maybe you and Shannon ought to plan another vacation and do stuff and go places? If you do, take the Greyhound; leave the 'Vette behind.

Love to all,
CJ

I'm sorry, but the Red head has to open her big mouth...

I have been thinking alot about the first few posts on this thread. I think that everyone has to have some boundries, now I'm not saying that they are never going to change, because they do. But also, I think that boundries are healthy.

Some people who cd need to do it once ot twice a year. Others everyday. And everyone else, is as usual when talking about the majority on ANY given topic, fall somewhere in the middle.

I am a hope for the best but expect the worst sort of person. When you have as many illness as I do, it is never good news from any of the doctors.But I digress. When Jean-P told me about the trans switch turning on, I immediatly though of the 24 hour a day senerio. I had to figure out what I could live with and what I couldn't. I now know that this is not what he wants, but I also know that may change.

So here is the big mouth part... flexability/boundries/limits or any other word you want to use are very arbatrary, they change as does the wind, depending on what the circumstances we find ourselves in.

What we think is carved in stone may turn to sand in the blink of an eye. Most of the SO's here, we, let me speak only for myself, I know what that is like. what may have been a strong conviction on my part 2 months ago, may not be now.

I hope I didn't bust anyones bubble... just trying to be as honest as I can, as I see things, take for what it is worth just remember it is said during a confussing time in my life and as always, with love,


Sinjoy(so)

No, you weren't seeing things I goofed!!

HELP the newbie managed to post the same thing twice!!

BAD NEWBIE!!!! BAD NEWBIE!!!

Sorry!! I hope some wonderful person out there can fix me, I mean my post!!

Sinjoy