Different motives

[Rikki]

My opinion is once the 'wiring' is completed, it does much more harm that good to try to fix or circumvent.

Jane, if (and when) I'm ever found out, can I present your statement as evidence during my testimony?

Well said.
Rikki

[Anthony Simon]

it's the intent, the man is trying to create a female appearance, a feminine aura etc.

I think Judith really hits upon something important when she talks about a "feminine aura". There is something kind of magical to women for men. And, yes, that powers a lot of sexual desire. But, on the other hand, I don't think it starts with sexual desire.

Because I think a person's engagement with "Woman" starts before he - or she - is aware of sex. It's as a tiny, tiny baby when it first begins to dawn on you that there's this other person beyond you on whom you're totally dependent. This person has the magical power of making everything alright - or not - and she's your mother.

I think that's part of where the magic of women comes from for men (but also for women). Another part of that magic is that of the mother who creates the child within her. That is really a deep and amazing form of magic, if you think about it - and, for me, it's the centre of what makes women magical to men.

When a girl baby grows up she becomes a woman and can have babies of her own. So then the magic is within her too. But boy babies don't do that. They grow up into men, who are - stereotypically - supposed to go off into the world and fight to make a living for the family they support.

But people are individuals too. They don't just correspond to the expected stereotypes. So maybe you get some boys who, in part of themselves, respond to that magic of making babies and wish they could do it themselves. Like their minds want that, but their bodies don't allow it. And they grow up like that, with that wish inside of them.

Well, maybe this doesn't work for many CDs, but I think it kind of works for me - as a partial explanation - of my CDing. Because so much of my CDing these days seems to revolve around getting dressed up until I've resolved some problem.

Like I need to dress up to "give birth" to the solution. I can also mentally go into "my woman"if I just want to conceptualize a problem right.

[Paulette]

During puberty, he says, 'everything is sexual!'. Dressing was a way add to the self pleasure session. All grown up now, as far as any man can be, dressing is sensual, not sexual, as in not arousing. With a brain part female, this makes sense. What woman doesn't feel more sexy wearing a nice fitting outfit? - Eileen

Good distinction: sensual and sexual, though I think there's a much greater dynamic in play than simply adding to or enhancing new-found pleasure.

At my 70th birthday I was asked what the "theme" of my next decade would be. Without pause I said "Sensuality." It is so, to my surprise and delight. And exploring my sensuality has allowed me to understand myself much better. I think I'm a nicer person, too, but that could simply be confirmation error.

Another point taken from your post is that, though I am almost always a male in my head and in my self-perception, that could have become something quite different: When we were both age nine, had Lenny taken that session of strip poker just a bit farther I could have had my first sexual experience right then, and gone on to gay happiness in adolescence and adulthood.

It would have been quite a different life! I didn't find out until fifteen years later that he was gay, and didn't recognize until sixty years later that at age nine I would have been quite happy to be his partner, and probably grown up with much less difficulty and trauma than I did being the way I was and am now. Then again, he died of aids in his 40s, and so might I have done.

Life is weird.

[Noeleena]

Hi, Jane ,

A ? how do you get on then , with People are born genderless and the brain is programmed by stimuli in our experance.

I have a problem with that i dont understand what you mean could you explain that to me please,

so when one is born how are they wired. is not the program started at conception,

as in how your going to be male or female or other,

Thanks .

...noeleena...

[Gillian]

The whole nature vs. nurture scenario gets kicked at a lot and the only thing that we would have to be careful of is that we don't try and place it all into one box, or the other. If there is one thing that I have learned of this lifestyle of CDing, is that there are similarities, but no two individuals are the same. It is like there are 100 things that contribute to CDing, one has 70 of theses and another has only 25. There might be only 5 things in common, and that is not really enough to make any correlations. The never to be fully answered question in the CDers mind is "why", and it extends to SO's and loved ones after they find out about it. We may be able to know a start date, but what was the motive behind the starting. We can know and read about the waxing and waning of the behavior, but not the motive of why it can come and go with so many. There seems too be just too many side issues that can affect it also, guilt, shame, stress, culture, to name a few. The whole endocrine system of the human body is not understood as well as it should be. Research is moving forward in this area, but that doesn't mean they know everything about it, yet. We can learn through observation, but that doesn't get us into the mind of the person being observed. Until someone starts a massive research project to get into the minds of the "CDer", we can only speculate, and I would be concerned that the researchers would get adequate subjects for a good cross section of the community. Why, because so many are hidden deep in the closet.

Here is another question. Why are we worried about the whole CDing thing anyway? Are there not other issues out there that could be addressed because they are much more important! I will name two, drunk drivers, or world hunger. Or if you would prefer to look at internal issues, be angry less and love more. Too much time is being spent majoring on the minors!

[Judith(SO)]

Anthony,
That was quite an interesting post of yours. I do find it difficult to understand what the exact feeling is you get when you say you feel feminine, or refer to your woman within.
I suppose it's a matter of semantics though, the words 'feminine/woman' probably have different meanings to different people. To me, feminine and woman is one and the same, when referring to people.

The times when I can really say that I consciously was most aware of my womanhood/femininity was during pregnancy, then childbirth and breast feeding, they are wonderful times, yes even magical as you said. Those are parts of the upside, one of the downsides is that one day in every twenty eight, when for that day I hate the world, and with that, one experiences the not so magical feelings of being a woman.
It's all an inherited right due to being born female, and of course males have their own role to fulfil, it's natures way of ensuring the survival of the species, it takes both to complete the cycle, as we know, but I guess part of the confusion for me is that a man would want to fulfil both roles, especially those
which are unique to women.

It's been a new experience for me being here, even if at times I feel like an interloper, but in the time I've been here, apart from anything else, I've learnt enough which has given me a different perspective to that which I had three years ago when I first found out about my hubby's 'hobby'. If it were just me then it would all be quite easy, I could live with it, but it's more involved isn't it, with children, family, friends, neighbours, the workplace etc, nobody could know what reactions would come from any of them. Fear does strange things to people. From what I know now, I can well appreciate why you would keep it a secret, people can be very cruel.
As long as anything we do does no physical or psychological harm, and it makes you happy and feeling good, then it can't be a bad thing, can it, but from what I've learnt so far, it is probably fair to say that if my hubby, or those similar to him, we're put into circumstances where they couldn't dress up, then that may well be harmful to their health and well being, would you agree with that?

Judith(so)

[Anne Bonny]

I should have jumped on your thread Gallian before I posted Dressing over time as it fits right in here. so here it is...
I have been thinking that the more I dress the more I calm down and over time I have on occasion thought what if I told my neighbor, socialworker, opened up to my wife's hospice nurse and aid. I sometimes think were I to receive a call for a visit that I would just tell them, well...I'm dressed and do not want to change you can come now or come at another time.... I am glad that I have let my hair grow out long enough to brush it out and comb it into a neat feminine style even though it is short soon it will look just like the short hair styles many women wear. I have learned to apply light make up and it does enhance my appearance. A snug fitting bra with an A cup does indeed produce natural breast curvature. Learning how to dress to look like any other woman my age, how to wear the clothes has helped me to become more beautiful. I am so glad that I am near the weight I should be just 6.5 pounds away and I will reach it soon, I am so thrilled that my girls things fit and are comfortable and that with my breasts and wearing the skirt a little above the belly button when a belt or sash is cinched up I actually have a woman's figure and shorter torso. I soon will have to redo my nails as they are growing out and glad I learned how to shine the nail with a buffer, paint then add 3 layers of topcoat which makes them bullet proof! I love having smooth legs and shave them as needed.

Am I affecting a look or am I dressing because this reflects how I am feeling inside which is just feminine. If this is who I am then wearing the clothing of the appropriate gender makes perfect sense. I do not always feel this way, but it seems as I have the freedom to shop on line, and as I have opened up I am growing as a woman don't know if that means I will dress more but I do believe society as a whole knows about us and they are beginning to recognize that this is just how we are as a matter of fact...acceptance is beginning to dawn for people like us - It's about time.

I am so glad this site exists for us and for our SO's and whoever is interested. This is such an interesting thread. There is and always has been some kind of sexual tension involved in dressing at least for me and we all need release we are human and sex is part of life we all should be able to enjoy things as long as we are hurting no one what difference does it make? I think there is some sort of deep seated process which can grow stronger and which we cannot do anything about but there is nothing to be concerned about after all women are wonderful desirable creatures to emulate and to be. What a way to die! In ecstasy....feeling a tremendous connection to the women I love and want to be like why should we not be like women? Seems for years many women have spent lots of time emulating men, there are nods to masculine fashion, and inroads which have made women more free to smoke, to wear pants, to vote, to pursue any profession they desire why should the same not be open to men? Is one sex or gender better than another - no - they are both wonderful...gee I must be manic today (no I am not bi polar). Anne

[Anne Bonny]

Did anyone see the recent news story confirming the gender differences in the "wiring" of the male and female brain? Women use the front part of their brain and the wiring is side to side with processes having to do with executive function, management, decision making, intuition. Men are wired front to back and are good at action, engineering, mathematics, spacial manipulation, and accomplishing tasks, building. There were color graphs of the male and female brain confirming gender roles and differences.
I would love to see if a transgender brain functions as a hybrid or if male and female transgender brains function the same way as regular male and female brains. I suppose we would all love to have hard confirmation so that the world would be confronted with the reality that we are like this not of our own choosing but because this is how we are made. I could be wrong but I have been this way all my life starting about the time I discovered how my grandmother's leg in a stocking felt as I started to notice male and female differences and began to really think about them and find them interesting.

[Gillian]

I read the article also. I would be curious to see how it compares when you look at the differences between left and right handed people also. I was part of a large study on left handedness when I was younger, I still remember the tests that they put the subjects through. With todays technology and a greater understanding into the human mind we could get a lot of answers to what is going on between the ears!

[Anne Bonny]

I am Left handed too Galian, and somewhat ambidextrous with some things. Shells that swirl to the left are Sinisteral latin for left and where we get the term Sinister because those who were left handed could stab you in the back with their left hand. This is a snippet of One of those Zoology class lectures that stuck with me.

[Anthony Simon]

Anthony,
That was quite an interesting post of yours. I do find it difficult to understand what the exact feeling is you get when you say you feel feminine, or refer to your woman within.
I suppose it's a matter of semantics though, the words 'feminine/woman' probably have different meanings to different people. To me, feminine and woman is one and the same, when referring to people.

Thanks, Judith.

For me the sense of feeling feminine is mostly about me trying to be like a woman - that's how I construe "feminine". But "my woman" within is something that is inside of me and feels like a real person. She feels how I would feel, only she's a woman.

The times when I can really say that I consciously was most aware of my womanhood/femininity was during pregnancy, then childbirth and breast feeding, they are wonderful times, yes even magical as you said. Those are parts of the upside, one of the downsides is that one day in every twenty eight, when for that day I hate the world, and with that, one experiences the not so magical feelings of being a woman.
It's all an inherited right due to being born female, and of course males have their own role to fulfil, it's natures way of ensuring the survival of the species, it takes both to complete the cycle, as we know, but I guess part of the confusion for me is that a man would want to fulfil both roles, especially those
which are unique to women.

Thanks for sharing that about being a woman. Not to tell you anything you don't already know...But life is strange. People do whatever they can do to get through it and make their best shot at it.

I have heavy elements of me that would (maybe) have been reasonably good at being a mother. And I think I would have liked that. But I do actually like my physicality as a man.

My problem about "being a man" is the whole competitive, edgy agressive
thing that men are supposed to do just bores me to tears. Mostly, it's the way it seems to be a fight without an end - And Why?

So, strictly speaking, I want to fulfil the role of a woman and not that of a man. Like I have one wish and not the other. But I've learnt that I do have a value as a man and I need to keep that part of me alive.

It's been a new experience for me being here, even if at times I feel like an interloper, but in the time I've been here, apart from anything else, I've learnt enough which has given me a different perspective to that which I had three years ago when I first found out about my hubby's 'hobby'. If it were just me then it would all be quite easy, I could live with it, but it's more involved isn't it, with children, family, friends, neighbours, the workplace etc, nobody could know what reactions would come from any of them. Fear does strange things to people. From what I know now, I can well appreciate why you would keep it a secret, people can be very cruel.

Yup, they can be. I don't know. It just feels you're putting your life in the hands of a lot of people you don't know - and that's a hell of a risk. Like the CD taps into all these strange dreads in people. A bit like witches used to, come to think of it now (as we've been talking about magic).

As long as anything we do does no physical or psychological harm, and it makes you happy and feeling good, then it can't be a bad thing, can it, but from what I've learnt so far, it is probably fair to say that if my hubby, or those similar to him, we're put into circumstances where they couldn't dress up, then that may well be harmful to their health and well being, would you agree with that?

Yes, I would. It'd be a form of emotional torture for a high proportion of CDs, even for a short period. But, over a longer one? Bits of the CD would probably get destroyed inside, that's my sense.

[Kelly]

For the record, I am left handed too.

As far as motives go I still think that the root motive is the brain wiring. Our environment, life experiences, individual psychology, and social situation dictate how we express. All cross dressers have one unifying characteristic: we are all unique. What does it matter.

What it boils down to is (plagiarism alert) I enjoy being a girl.

Also, I enjoy a good cigar. I enjoy catching (and releasing) trout, baseball, pass blocking (its an American football thing), getting babies to smile, movies that make me cry, and satin sheets. Lots of joys, there are lots more.

So why do I worry so much (at times, I do) about the first, but none of the others? Well, in part, it is what Judith mentioned people can be cruel. So much so that knowing leads me to question my own focus, my own joy.

Alas. Currently, I am quite sanguine about it all. After all, if I totally understood, would it make any difference?

Kelly.

[Gillian]

Quote; "So why do I worry so much (at times, I do) about the first, but none of the others? Well, in part, it is what Judith mentioned people can be cruel."

We worry about it for the very reason that people can be cruel. People are ignorant, they don't know that the majority of CD'ers are just normal people who have an interest in different things than them. People fear things that are different. The news media, Holywood, those way out there in right field, don't help either. There are some really bad perceptions of what a CD'er is and does. 99% of us are not perverts, we are just guys that like to dress up, yes some for sexual reasons, but within a reasonable frame work of normal. Not meaning to be tasteless but what is the difference between some one who masturbates while looking at pornography, while another is wearing his "frillies"...nothing, absolutely nothing! The end result is the same, yet "people" differentiate between the two. Until wrong ideas get broken down and ignorant people learn the truth about Cding I don't see anything changing. Don't get me wrong, I'm optimistic also, I have seen many changes in my life, some not as fast as I would like, but changes never the less.

What is needed is some legitimate research into this life style to get a better understanding of the whats and whys.

[Hope]

Wow...Gillina! Great Post.

I couldn't agree more that It would be wonderful for more in depth reporting about CD activity, and how largely, we aren't REALLY any different than anyone else! Unfortunately, we are ALL (again, largely) very secretive and try our very VERY best to stay 'under the radar.'
That just is....

And in fact, we aren't like everyone else. I think it's been said often here that everyone is different from everyone else. But we all get so wrapped up in our own issues, we tend to think we're the only ones that have the problem? I guess what I'm saying is that although we would love to have society understand we aren't really a threat, we still feel somehow....we are. That's just societal programming I think. From the earliest recollections of good and bad, somehow young boys and men just KNOW it ain't right to wear a frock! The problem on the male side is, if we admit to liking frocks, we are somehow a threat to the guys that wouldn't have anything to do with it. We are, I think to them, a threat to dismantling the notion of what real men are?

All that psycho-babble suggests is we (I) would love for society to realize I just want to feel things and enjoy things others might not necessarily want to do. I'm still a nice guy....I just like escaping to being a nice girl too once in a while. It's back to my vacation theory. I like taking a vacation from the everyday perils of manhood once in a while to explore as close as I'll ever get to the perils of what women face. I like taking time out of manly chores and exploring just even a slight glimpse of the perils on the other side of the fence?

Over the past 6 weeks or so, I've done that very thing. What I've discovered is that over time the clothes become almost un-noticed. The chores are relentless and never ending. Still, I have enjoyed every moment and wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Luckily I have a very supportive partner and the love of my life. Because of her, I've had this opportunity more than once, and each time I've learned something more. I also know I'll never really know the burdens a woman bares, just as they won't know the feelings men have about so many things. But I've learned that over time, the clothes become less noticeable and the daily rituals of makeup, nails, etc. become just that...a daily ritual. OH! I'm not willing to give them up just yet, it's just not so....exciting? sensational? driving? It just is....nice.

So maybe it's up to us as CD'er to also realize, women are special. We admire them perhaps more than other men and so perhaps, want to emulate that which we admire. Maybe it's not as noble as that.....but society I fear, will never understand us because we are so quiet. Are we so quiet because we don't understand us either.....sigh...a conundrum!

[Jane D]

Hi, Jane ,

A ? how do you get on then , with People are born genderless and the brain is programmed by stimuli in our experance.

I have a problem with that i dont understand what you mean could you explain that to me please,

so when one is born how are they wired. is not the program started at conception,

as in how your going to be male or female or other,

Thanks .

...noeleena...

Sex is determined by genetics, and cannot be changed since it is expressed in every individual cell. Whatever sex you are born, you remain. God help us, the day we can re-engineer our genetic process as it will usher in customized and artificial life forms.

These are my opinions, based on my readings. It is not to be taken as gospel but is for discussion and learning purposes (including mine, everyone should keep an open mind, evaluate and learn). I believe gender is behavior based and is learned as is sexual orientation. I just think it is the 'feel good' chemicals generated by our brains when we see a certain stimuli...if the brain enjoys what it is experiencing, it will take note and try to achieve that good feeling (imprint). That is it in a nutshell. Think about it - it explains allot of human behavior. Cross dressing is positively tame compared to other things people do!

Is there a genetic component that predisposes us to favor learning certain things, that guides our learning and causes an outcome? Don't know but I highly doubt it. In animals, learned behaviors are often shaped by what is physically possible, such as using a rock or a twig of a certain size.

Much 'brain learning' goes on even after birth that you might find unbelievable. Everything that goes on inside our bodies and our minds can ultimately be traced down to chemical reactions and electrical signals powered by chemical reactions.

Vision is probably my favorite example. There is a good reason newborns cannot see but only react to stimuli...their brains don't know how to interpret the signals. They do not yet see a 'motion picture' like we do in our minds. It takes months for the brain to develop and remember abstracts of shapes/forms. From these building blocks more complex images can be pieced together, remembered and recalled.

I'll pull out my books and try to get some quotes. Sorry if this is rambling or boring.