I've thought hard about this thread before answering ,
I think the 3 month probation pill is the best option , if after that time you decide you dont like being a woman you revert back to your male form.
I think a pill to transform women into men is also a good idea , so that they can find out what it feels like to be " TOTALLY REJECTED" by the opposite sex.
Better To Be A Woman? Rejected Less By Opposite Sex
Moderators: KimberlyS, Eileen (SO)
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Merinda
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CJ
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Hi all,Merinda Widget wrote:I've thought hard about this thread before answering ,
I think the 3 month probation pill is the best option , if after that time you decide you dont like being a woman you revert back to your male form.
I think a pill to transform women into men is also a good idea , so that they can find out what it feels like to be " TOTALLY REJECTED" by the opposite sex.
Ah, but Merinda, I'm sure there are many women out there who don't need a sex change to know what it feels like to be rejected; some men aren't particularly more sensitive than some women, after all. And it's no less hurtful to be crassly rejected, as a woman, than it is as a man, I imagine.
Love,
CJ
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Merinda
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From age 18 - 28 (me) as a male looking for a relationship--MariasGirl(SO) wrote:Thank you CJ.
Merinda, believe me, becoming a woman (even a young, pretty one) would NOT mean never being rejected.
1 girl dated 4 times
1 girl dated once , 6 months later
no action ( rejection ) next 4 years
polite rejection 60%
told to f*** off or other impolite remarks or made fun of- 40% over 1000 woman tryed to chat up and failed
told that I am not a real man by one group of women
3 more years of rejection
went on double date , girls pissed off with other men
24 women in one night reject me , " 13 not inerested " , 11 rudely told me to F*** off or other rude remark including 1 girl that almost arrested me for being a public nuisense
10 years later -- still the same situation and declared myself a misfit on society and would no longer seek a relationship with the opposite sex.
That is a quick view of my life in my 20's , can any woman better that??
I even had an American tourist complain to me about the (I'm to good for you) attitude of Australian women , I told him that America may have the largest divorce rate but in Australia you dont need to worry because you cant get into a relationshop in the first place
sorry I got carried away , back to normal programme
Merinda
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Merinda, I totally appreciate the struggle you had as a young man.
But, I will reiterate, being a woman would NOT necessarily have changed the struggle you experienced. There are women who suffer rejection such as that, or worse, and never ever reach a point of recovering from it enough to have a real, fulfilling relationship. Ever.
Its a daily human struggle and its what's between your ears that determines your life, not what's between your legs.
But, I will reiterate, being a woman would NOT necessarily have changed the struggle you experienced. There are women who suffer rejection such as that, or worse, and never ever reach a point of recovering from it enough to have a real, fulfilling relationship. Ever.
Its a daily human struggle and its what's between your ears that determines your life, not what's between your legs.
Love is a verb. It's a doing thing. No action, no love! - Terri
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Merinda
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I agree that some woman experience rejection however I think to experience rejection at the rate I did would be rare for a woman.MariasGirl(SO) wrote:Merinda, I totally appreciate the struggle you had as a young man.
But, I will reiterate, being a woman would NOT necessarily have changed the struggle you experienced. There are women who suffer rejection such as that, or worse, and never ever reach a point of recovering from it enough to have a real, fulfilling relationship. Ever
Its a daily human struggle and its what's between your ears that determines your life, not what's between your legs.
I cant see any woman being told to F'- off by 4/10 of the male population for 10 years.
What determines your life is the median between what you want to do and what this world will allow you to do , everybody blamed me for the fact I was not in a relationship but what can I do if the other party is not interested??
I dont consider that I've had a bad life , I'm thankfull for what I have because there is always someone worse off .
My only hang-up is the fact that socially I am a misfit in everyones eyes, so on that aspect of my life I should be demanding a full refund.
Merinda
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Merinda
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CJ
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Hi all,
Merinda,
I hear you. Really, I do. The relationship between the sexes is fraught with peril, these days. I say this seriously. It's so hard to figure out what we want, sometimes, let alone what our possible "object of interest" wants. Not only that, but in a time such as ours--where political correctness seems to almost "taint" every aspect of the relationship between the sexes--it can be extremely difficult for a man to approach a woman, regardless of how non-threateningly he does so.
I don't know about Australia, but I do know that here, in Montreal, circumstances are such that women are generally very leary of being approached by a man they don't know. And I can't say I blame them; after all, it is the case that some men have "that" foremost in their minds when they approach a woman. Now, aside from the double-date, you never mention what the context is for these encounters; did they happen in singles bars? If so, rejection is par for the course; competition is high. You want to have a crack at, say, becoming an actor, for example? Well, don't head to NYC or LA, you know? Chances are very high you won't succeed, if only because you haven't managed to stand out from the rest of the aspiring thespians--despite any impressive acting talent you might actually have. So, context matters. That's one thing. I'm sorry to hear that dating (or trying to) has been a bad experience for you. That certainly can't have done your self-esteem any good, I'm sure. That is, until you see or realize or understand that this series of flops and "slaps in the face" may have had more to do with an unfortunate set of circumstances and situations where you were never given the chance to show yourself under the best possible light than it has with anything inherent marking you as a "misfit." Dating is never easy. Being "single and looking" can sometimes be tremendously hard (after four years of being single, I can vouch for that... even though I'm not "looking" all that hard, myself). Anyway, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you here--I have neither the competence nor the inclination. You're the only person who can know yourself well. But the pain and the frustration I hear in your posts make me want to reach out to you. Which is why I'm going to go out on a limb, here.
There was an unspoken assumption in this entire thread (which Merinda now makes explicit) that it's better to be a woman than it is to be a man. Sorry but that's just not true. The truth is: it's better to be who you are than who you're not. Period. For what follows, I'll be basing myself on my experience, not just as a man, nor even as a "woman-identified" man, but as a patroller in my university's Student Safety Patrol, back in the mid-90's. Our target "clients" were almost always women. Why? Because, more often than not, it's women who are the targets of sexual violence. Women get beaten up, raped, and, yes, killed. They don't suffer this at the hands of other women. They suffer this at the hands of men who, invariably, physically overpower them (although, with the arrival on the scene of the "date rape" drug, men resort to their strength less often now, but with no less devastating results--and, to me, this drug just goes to show how little some men can distinguish between a human being and an inflatable doll). On December 6th, 1989, a sexually frustrated man walked into a University of Montreal Engineering Building classroom and mercilessly gunned down fourteen women students with an automatic weapon. These women were killed because they were women. No other reason. Now, that's rejection for you. And this kind of violence is endemic to our society. In every corner of our world, men assault women. Not just daily. Not just hourly. They do so every single second. It's not good to be a woman, say, in India, where the pratice of burning off a woman's face with acid when she's believed to have been unfaithful is becoming widespread. It's not good being a woman in Saudi Arabia, where showing an ankle gets one fifteen lashes on the back with a rubber hose. It's not good being a woman in Ethiopia, where prepubescent girls have their clitoris ritually excised and their labia stitched up because male-oriented and patriarchical traditions demand it. And, before we think it's good to be a woman here, in North America, I'd ask myself only one question: Why do I get paid less for equal work (while simultaneously raising children, keeping a household in running order, catering to the pleasures and needs of my partner by working my image to the bone, putting in twice the effort at obtaining recognition of my skills toward advancement and promotion, all the while grinning as I bite back the monthly pain of my menstrual cramps)? Better to be a woman? No, I don't think so. Which brings me to another thing.
No man can know what it's like to be a woman. Likewise, no woman can know what it's like to be a man. Notice, I didn't say "feminine" or "masculine," I said--and I say so deliberately--"woman" and "man." At 43 years of age, I have just enough experience in this world as a man to know that many men have a hard time actually seeing women for what they are--flesh and blood human beings just as we are, who laugh and love and dream and hope and rant and rave and cry and think just as we do. They aspire to the fullness of their possibilities, just as we do. They go to the toilet and use deodorants, just as we do. They can look like hell in the morning and have bad breath, just as we can. For some reason, men often have this idealized "image" in their minds of what a woman actually is. Well, sorry, but the map isn't--and has never been--the territory. It's the old "Goddess or Whore" dichotomy. Have you ever met a Goddess? or a Whore? No, neither have I. Through my work, I've met prostitutes and, oddly enough, everything I said above applies to them also; they're flesh and blood human beings, with their own wild desires and deep, deep fears.
This tendency men have to look at women through almost "mythical" eyes is even more pronounced in crossdressers; contrary to other, non-transgendered, men we actually aspire to be like women. I think our relative lack of success in this area (as occasionally witnessed by both our attitudes and styles of dress or self-presentation) suggests that we need to hang out more often with real women rather than with just the ones living in our minds. Frankly, from what I sometimes see and hear, coming from the crossdressers' corner, I'm not at all surprised that a GG would be scared away or angered by the whole picture. Some of it borders on misogyny, a contempt for womanhood. Is this done out of malice or hatred or even, God forbid! self-loathing for the "woman" we recognize within ourselves? No, I don't think so. Out of ignorance? Probably. Thankfully, this is nothing a little self-knowledge (and a lot of open, honest communication with the women in our lives) cannot fix. Walking a mile in an SO's shoes is not the same thing as spending even a mere minute in her heart and mind.
Anyway, I've ranted enough. Sorry if some of you are put off by this mental tornado of mine, but, for a variety of reasons, I needed to get this off my chest. Merinda, I hope I haven't annoyed you more than you can bear. You weren't the main target; nobody was. I just sense this undertow of longing and wistfulness on the forum sometimes for a womanhood that, to my mind, doesn't actually correspond to anything out there, in the real world--regardless of how green we may think the neighbour's grass is. I meant no offence to anyone here (now, that "other" forum, well, that's another story).
Please, take care y'all. I'm tired; I'm going to bed.
Peace,
CJ
Merinda,
I hear you. Really, I do. The relationship between the sexes is fraught with peril, these days. I say this seriously. It's so hard to figure out what we want, sometimes, let alone what our possible "object of interest" wants. Not only that, but in a time such as ours--where political correctness seems to almost "taint" every aspect of the relationship between the sexes--it can be extremely difficult for a man to approach a woman, regardless of how non-threateningly he does so.
I don't know about Australia, but I do know that here, in Montreal, circumstances are such that women are generally very leary of being approached by a man they don't know. And I can't say I blame them; after all, it is the case that some men have "that" foremost in their minds when they approach a woman. Now, aside from the double-date, you never mention what the context is for these encounters; did they happen in singles bars? If so, rejection is par for the course; competition is high. You want to have a crack at, say, becoming an actor, for example? Well, don't head to NYC or LA, you know? Chances are very high you won't succeed, if only because you haven't managed to stand out from the rest of the aspiring thespians--despite any impressive acting talent you might actually have. So, context matters. That's one thing. I'm sorry to hear that dating (or trying to) has been a bad experience for you. That certainly can't have done your self-esteem any good, I'm sure. That is, until you see or realize or understand that this series of flops and "slaps in the face" may have had more to do with an unfortunate set of circumstances and situations where you were never given the chance to show yourself under the best possible light than it has with anything inherent marking you as a "misfit." Dating is never easy. Being "single and looking" can sometimes be tremendously hard (after four years of being single, I can vouch for that... even though I'm not "looking" all that hard, myself). Anyway, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you here--I have neither the competence nor the inclination. You're the only person who can know yourself well. But the pain and the frustration I hear in your posts make me want to reach out to you. Which is why I'm going to go out on a limb, here.
There was an unspoken assumption in this entire thread (which Merinda now makes explicit) that it's better to be a woman than it is to be a man. Sorry but that's just not true. The truth is: it's better to be who you are than who you're not. Period. For what follows, I'll be basing myself on my experience, not just as a man, nor even as a "woman-identified" man, but as a patroller in my university's Student Safety Patrol, back in the mid-90's. Our target "clients" were almost always women. Why? Because, more often than not, it's women who are the targets of sexual violence. Women get beaten up, raped, and, yes, killed. They don't suffer this at the hands of other women. They suffer this at the hands of men who, invariably, physically overpower them (although, with the arrival on the scene of the "date rape" drug, men resort to their strength less often now, but with no less devastating results--and, to me, this drug just goes to show how little some men can distinguish between a human being and an inflatable doll). On December 6th, 1989, a sexually frustrated man walked into a University of Montreal Engineering Building classroom and mercilessly gunned down fourteen women students with an automatic weapon. These women were killed because they were women. No other reason. Now, that's rejection for you. And this kind of violence is endemic to our society. In every corner of our world, men assault women. Not just daily. Not just hourly. They do so every single second. It's not good to be a woman, say, in India, where the pratice of burning off a woman's face with acid when she's believed to have been unfaithful is becoming widespread. It's not good being a woman in Saudi Arabia, where showing an ankle gets one fifteen lashes on the back with a rubber hose. It's not good being a woman in Ethiopia, where prepubescent girls have their clitoris ritually excised and their labia stitched up because male-oriented and patriarchical traditions demand it. And, before we think it's good to be a woman here, in North America, I'd ask myself only one question: Why do I get paid less for equal work (while simultaneously raising children, keeping a household in running order, catering to the pleasures and needs of my partner by working my image to the bone, putting in twice the effort at obtaining recognition of my skills toward advancement and promotion, all the while grinning as I bite back the monthly pain of my menstrual cramps)? Better to be a woman? No, I don't think so. Which brings me to another thing.
No man can know what it's like to be a woman. Likewise, no woman can know what it's like to be a man. Notice, I didn't say "feminine" or "masculine," I said--and I say so deliberately--"woman" and "man." At 43 years of age, I have just enough experience in this world as a man to know that many men have a hard time actually seeing women for what they are--flesh and blood human beings just as we are, who laugh and love and dream and hope and rant and rave and cry and think just as we do. They aspire to the fullness of their possibilities, just as we do. They go to the toilet and use deodorants, just as we do. They can look like hell in the morning and have bad breath, just as we can. For some reason, men often have this idealized "image" in their minds of what a woman actually is. Well, sorry, but the map isn't--and has never been--the territory. It's the old "Goddess or Whore" dichotomy. Have you ever met a Goddess? or a Whore? No, neither have I. Through my work, I've met prostitutes and, oddly enough, everything I said above applies to them also; they're flesh and blood human beings, with their own wild desires and deep, deep fears.
This tendency men have to look at women through almost "mythical" eyes is even more pronounced in crossdressers; contrary to other, non-transgendered, men we actually aspire to be like women. I think our relative lack of success in this area (as occasionally witnessed by both our attitudes and styles of dress or self-presentation) suggests that we need to hang out more often with real women rather than with just the ones living in our minds. Frankly, from what I sometimes see and hear, coming from the crossdressers' corner, I'm not at all surprised that a GG would be scared away or angered by the whole picture. Some of it borders on misogyny, a contempt for womanhood. Is this done out of malice or hatred or even, God forbid! self-loathing for the "woman" we recognize within ourselves? No, I don't think so. Out of ignorance? Probably. Thankfully, this is nothing a little self-knowledge (and a lot of open, honest communication with the women in our lives) cannot fix. Walking a mile in an SO's shoes is not the same thing as spending even a mere minute in her heart and mind.
Anyway, I've ranted enough. Sorry if some of you are put off by this mental tornado of mine, but, for a variety of reasons, I needed to get this off my chest. Merinda, I hope I haven't annoyed you more than you can bear. You weren't the main target; nobody was. I just sense this undertow of longing and wistfulness on the forum sometimes for a womanhood that, to my mind, doesn't actually correspond to anything out there, in the real world--regardless of how green we may think the neighbour's grass is. I meant no offence to anyone here (now, that "other" forum, well, that's another story).
Please, take care y'all. I'm tired; I'm going to bed.
Peace,
CJ
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Merinda
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Wow CJ that was some post and very interesting
Sorry for ranting on about something that was happening years back , I should really get over it.
My frustration was the aggresive manner in which I was rejected , it made me feel like I was doing something wrong.
Most insults were at nightclubs however there were many parties and social gatherings as well as known work collegues.
I certainly have not done it easy and I have 2 male friends that are in their mid 40's and havent been able to secure a relationship with a woman since they were in their late teens/early 20's.
Anyway thanks to everyone for your support and input , I am married with 2 beautiful children and I should appreciate that rather than dwelling on the past
Sorry for ranting on about something that was happening years back , I should really get over it.
My frustration was the aggresive manner in which I was rejected , it made me feel like I was doing something wrong.
Most insults were at nightclubs however there were many parties and social gatherings as well as known work collegues.
I certainly have not done it easy and I have 2 male friends that are in their mid 40's and havent been able to secure a relationship with a woman since they were in their late teens/early 20's.
Anyway thanks to everyone for your support and input , I am married with 2 beautiful children and I should appreciate that rather than dwelling on the past
Merinda
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Beauty
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Point - Counterpoint
I titled this Point - Counterpoint just to say a line from the 70's SNL.
Dan Akroyd, "Jane you ignorant slut."
I think it's been seen by the forum faithful that though we agree on more than we disagree on. I don't see eye to eye with CJ on women and approaching them stuff.
CJ's article was a rant and a rant includes facts, insertion of point of view and a bit of drama.
Rejection is something I had for 30 something years of my life until I changed me and the way I presented myself to women. Tom Selleck, Brad Pitt, and many others, before they were famous, got rejected by lots of women, but the women who were attracted to them gave him signals that he they were ok to being approached.
Many men never learn the art of understanding when a woman is saying come to me now.
In school, I walked up to a girl and asked her if she'd wanted to be my girlfriend and all of her friends around her just burst out laughing (8-10 people) and she didn't say a word. The walk away from them was much harder than the walk to her. I was really attracted to her so I figured I'd do my best to see if she was interested. When I look back on it I ignored every last negative thing she did to me to let me know, "NO WAY!"
Her body language, eye contact, lack of expression when I did make eye contact were perfect signs to say, "DO NOT APPROACH" But I was ignorant and approached someone who looked at me as a runt. It didn't stop there. I went through another 20+ years of doing the same stupid thing.
My life sounds a lot like yours Merinda. Oy, if I could count the ways I was rejected.
Now I think they are funny because I was so not a guy that the majority of women would be attracted to even if we were a perfect match. My presentation was of this character not who I am.
This gives me the segue back to CJ's post. It is very true that women are treated incredibly unfairly here and all over the world. Women have shown a strength most men will never understand. A woman like Hillary C. saying all of that is far more moving than hearing a man say it. When I hear it from a man to me it sounds like you believe it, but it's also kind of a line (yes, like a long pickup line). Not a line like, "Hey baby, wanna do it?" It's more like a "look, can't you see how much insight I have into women's struggles?" A female friend may appreciate a man acknowledging they see their struggles. To a woman you're interested in though it sounds like a line used by a lot of lonely guys.
I hope as CJ said she wasn't really harping on Merinda you believe I'm not harping on CJ's rant. It's just that it sounds exactly like me. It's like all kinds of scary how those are the exact things I process day to day. CJ I commend you for your heart of gold. Your golden heart should not be taken for granted and you are truly beautiful from the inside out. What you do everyday to help people some would never do and I am pretty sure in the after life you'll have a wonderful glowing cloud that lots of souls will gravitate to. Me included if ya' let me.
My point is only this. Rejection sucks, but we almost always walk in to it, male or female, with our eyes open, but our hearts leading and not with our minds observing.
A girl told me one time she totally hit on me and I missed it. Friends later in life would have to say, "Did you see that girl hit on you???" and I'd be like, "Huh? I'm a runt. No girl would hit on me. Trust me. I know because I get rejected all the time." Meanwhile the entire time I was missing the body language and the Venusian way women communicate if they are interested in talking to you.
I don't think any of us CD'rs are macho men. Macho men have the ability to go over to a woman and though she's saying, "BUG OFF!!" he still can end up going home with her at the end of the day or dating her in a week, month or year. Macho men tend to find out a women's soft spot and work on it until they get in a woman's undies and then the women's intial "BUG OFF" reaction is realized. They live their lives lying to get what they think is a quest, "S.E.X." Once their conquest is over they go back to seeking out a new woman.
We are a different. We are the one those women run to and we hold them and tell them everything is going to be ok. Then when they are all better (immature gals only) they go right back to the liars.
Most of our SOs (on the board) married their men because they were attracted to the softer side of their guy. From what I've read these women still don't want a man who is not going to be a man sometimes. Even as a submissive person I have to be a guy in my relationship. Sometimes I have to decide where we're going out. I have to make decisions about things around the house and sometimes I have to say no. I hate doing it, but I accept relationship is based heavily on compromise not enforcing one will over the other.
I know I read a Venus book, but even that can't help me figure out women. My head hurts with just the idea of trying to think about them. Yet I know part of me shares a part of their souls and that's the compassionate me. If I describe it anymore it loses it's value. Compassion is a mental thing and as CJ illustrated in her post above that in one small facet of a woman's life.
So it was my turn to rant and I'm know in this post I've included facts, my point of view, and most assuredly drama. So I'll be the last person to cast a stone and if I do, I'll pick a rock up and throw it at my own glass house. I'm full of flaws. I'm not even sure why I've been blessed with what I have.
Regardless this was just something I had to share with "the family" because seeing a bleeding heart makes the old me wake up and the current me pounces on the old me. Especially whenever I see anything that's remotely similar to where I've been. This is to make sure the old way I did things stays in the past. Why? Because the old me was always alone. The new me always had a date. Luckily I don't have to worry about that anymore. I just try to date my wife everyday.
If you read this. Go buy yourself something. You deserve it for getting through my banter.
Beauty
Dan Akroyd, "Jane you ignorant slut."
I think it's been seen by the forum faithful that though we agree on more than we disagree on. I don't see eye to eye with CJ on women and approaching them stuff.
CJ's article was a rant and a rant includes facts, insertion of point of view and a bit of drama.
Rejection is something I had for 30 something years of my life until I changed me and the way I presented myself to women. Tom Selleck, Brad Pitt, and many others, before they were famous, got rejected by lots of women, but the women who were attracted to them gave him signals that he they were ok to being approached.
Many men never learn the art of understanding when a woman is saying come to me now.
In school, I walked up to a girl and asked her if she'd wanted to be my girlfriend and all of her friends around her just burst out laughing (8-10 people) and she didn't say a word. The walk away from them was much harder than the walk to her. I was really attracted to her so I figured I'd do my best to see if she was interested. When I look back on it I ignored every last negative thing she did to me to let me know, "NO WAY!"
Her body language, eye contact, lack of expression when I did make eye contact were perfect signs to say, "DO NOT APPROACH"
But I was ignorant and approached someone who looked at me as a runt. It didn't stop there. I went through another 20+ years of doing the same stupid thing.My life sounds a lot like yours Merinda. Oy, if I could count the ways I was rejected.
Now I think they are funny because I was so not a guy that the majority of women would be attracted to even if we were a perfect match. My presentation was of this character not who I am.This gives me the segue back to CJ's post. It is very true that women are treated incredibly unfairly here and all over the world. Women have shown a strength most men will never understand. A woman like Hillary C. saying all of that is far more moving than hearing a man say it. When I hear it from a man to me it sounds like you believe it, but it's also kind of a line (yes, like a long pickup line). Not a line like, "Hey baby, wanna do it?" It's more like a "look, can't you see how much insight I have into women's struggles?" A female friend may appreciate a man acknowledging they see their struggles. To a woman you're interested in though it sounds like a line used by a lot of lonely guys.
I hope as CJ said she wasn't really harping on Merinda you believe I'm not harping on CJ's rant. It's just that it sounds exactly like me. It's like all kinds of scary how those are the exact things I process day to day. CJ I commend you for your heart of gold. Your golden heart should not be taken for granted and you are truly beautiful from the inside out. What you do everyday to help people some would never do and I am pretty sure in the after life you'll have a wonderful glowing cloud that lots of souls will gravitate to. Me included if ya' let me.
My point is only this. Rejection sucks, but we almost always walk in to it, male or female, with our eyes open, but our hearts leading and not with our minds observing.
A girl told me one time she totally hit on me and I missed it. Friends later in life would have to say, "Did you see that girl hit on you???" and I'd be like, "Huh? I'm a runt. No girl would hit on me. Trust me. I know because I get rejected all the time." Meanwhile the entire time I was missing the body language and the Venusian way women communicate if they are interested in talking to you.
I don't think any of us CD'rs are macho men. Macho men have the ability to go over to a woman and though she's saying, "BUG OFF!!" he still can end up going home with her at the end of the day or dating her in a week, month or year. Macho men tend to find out a women's soft spot and work on it until they get in a woman's undies and then the women's intial "BUG OFF" reaction is realized. They live their lives lying to get what they think is a quest, "S.E.X." Once their conquest is over they go back to seeking out a new woman.
We are a different. We are the one those women run to and we hold them and tell them everything is going to be ok. Then when they are all better (immature gals only) they go right back to the liars.
Most of our SOs (on the board) married their men because they were attracted to the softer side of their guy. From what I've read these women still don't want a man who is not going to be a man sometimes. Even as a submissive person I have to be a guy in my relationship. Sometimes I have to decide where we're going out. I have to make decisions about things around the house and sometimes I have to say no. I hate doing it, but I accept relationship is based heavily on compromise not enforcing one will over the other.
I know I read a Venus book, but even that can't help me figure out women. My head hurts with just the idea of trying to think about them.
Yet I know part of me shares a part of their souls and that's the compassionate me. If I describe it anymore it loses it's value. Compassion is a mental thing and as CJ illustrated in her post above that in one small facet of a woman's life.So it was my turn to rant and I'm know in this post I've included facts, my point of view, and most assuredly drama.
So I'll be the last person to cast a stone and if I do, I'll pick a rock up and throw it at my own glass house. I'm full of flaws. I'm not even sure why I've been blessed with what I have. Regardless this was just something I had to share with "the family" because seeing a bleeding heart makes the old me wake up and the current me pounces on the old me. Especially whenever I see anything that's remotely similar to where I've been. This is to make sure the old way I did things stays in the past. Why? Because the old me was always alone. The new me always had a date. Luckily I don't have to worry about that anymore. I just try to date my wife everyday.
If you read this. Go buy yourself something.
You deserve it for getting through my banter. Beauty
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Jassmine(SO)
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 626
- Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:13 am
- Location: Irving
Howdy Y'all 
CJ & Beauty, you both made fantastic points!!
I would like to point out an interesting phenominon (sp?) Something I have noticed is that most women are attracted to so called "bad boys". I don't understand why
They get involved with these types and then complain that they treat them like garbage, but then go right back out to find another one. Makes no sense. On the other hand, I have noticed that when some women do hook up with a nice guy, they end up treating them like dirt I have seen it over and over with Ahzz and my friends. I know quite a few very nice guys who would treat a woman incredibly well, and yet no women want them??? These men have also been walked all over by the women they did hook up with. What really gets me is listening to women complain that there are no nice guys out there There are but apparently some women don't really want that. I just don't get it 
*Hugs & Love*
CJ & Beauty, you both made fantastic points!!
I would like to point out an interesting phenominon (sp?) Something I have noticed is that most women are attracted to so called "bad boys". I don't understand why
They get involved with these types and then complain that they treat them like garbage, but then go right back out to find another one. Makes no sense. On the other hand, I have noticed that when some women do hook up with a nice guy, they end up treating them like dirt I have seen it over and over with Ahzz and my friends. I know quite a few very nice guys who would treat a woman incredibly well, and yet no women want them??? These men have also been walked all over by the women they did hook up with. What really gets me is listening to women complain that there are no nice guys out there There are but apparently some women don't really want that. I just don't get it *Hugs & Love*
Blessings Eternal, Jassmine
"Love is unconditional acceptance. That quality is also our essential nature, who we really are."
--Peter Shepherd
"Love is unconditional acceptance. That quality is also our essential nature, who we really are."
--Peter Shepherd
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Loretta Ann
- Permanently Banned
- Posts: 2199
- Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:30 pm
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Hi all,
Don't know how I missed this thread. thanks for pointing to it Beauty.
There have been things said in this tread that in my opinion may be long over due. Thank you CJ. Beauty, and others.
In fact lately I have been experiencing fleeting moments where I feel a little guilty that I should feel so right in them. A feeling that I never have had in male clothing (feeling so right that is).
Darlene writes; Yes Mammmmm.
Rejection knows no boundaries (gender or otherwise), and is equally as hurtful, or harmful to who ever is experiencing it at the time. It is a fact of life and will continue to occur in ones life until it is no longer feared, at which time it becomes powerless.
Don't know how I missed this thread. thanks for pointing to it Beauty.
There have been things said in this tread that in my opinion may be long over due. Thank you CJ. Beauty, and others.
No man can know what it's like to be a woman. Likewise, no woman can know what it's like to be a man. Notice, I didn't say "feminine" or "masculine," I said--and I say so deliberately--"woman" and "man."
They can look like hell in the morning and have bad breath, just as we can. For some reason, men often have this idealized "image" in their minds of what a woman actually is.
That is the element that I see seems to separate me from a lot of people. (not complaining) I do not aspire to be like women. I have said it before and I will say it again. Woman are not the angles, or saviors, or Goddesses, or super human beings with all the answers, or power, some of us have set them up to be in our minds.This tendency men have to look at women through almost "mythical" eyes is even more pronounced in crossdressers; contrary to other, non-transgendered, men we actually aspire to be like women.
When I indulge in the luxury of wearing woman's clothing, except for filling my bra, and wearing a wig. I seek no other changes. In fact I like the way the clothes fit my male body. No that's not quite true "I love it."I just sense this undertow of longing and wistfulness on the forum sometimes for a womanhood that, to my mind, doesn't actually correspond to anything out there, in the real world--regardless of how green we may think the neighbor's grass is.
In fact lately I have been experiencing fleeting moments where I feel a little guilty that I should feel so right in them. A feeling that I never have had in male clothing (feeling so right that is).
Beauty wrote; My presentation was of this character not who I am.
CJ wrote; The truth is: it's better to be who you are than who you're not. Period.
Darlene writes; Yes Mammmmm.
Rejection is something I had for 30 something years of my life until I changed me and the way I presented myself to women.
Rejection knows no boundaries (gender or otherwise), and is equally as hurtful, or harmful to who ever is experiencing it at the time. It is a fact of life and will continue to occur in ones life until it is no longer feared, at which time it becomes powerless.
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CJ
- Miss Diamond Goddess
- Posts: 3562
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 11:12 pm
- Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Hi all,
Merinda,
Dear, sweet Merinda: thanks for not freaking out on me.
I was afraid that some things I said would hurt you and, in anything I say, here on the forum, it's never my intention to hurt anyone. I'm glad you saw that. The thing is, you do sound like you currently lead a happy and fairly fulfilling life. Indeed, we should count our blessings, regardless of how we came by them. I think what set off my rant is the fact that people tend to make sweeping generalizations based, on the one hand, strictly on their own experience, and, on the other hand, on an inadequate knowledge or undestanding of that to which they refer to (in this case, "what it's like to be a woman"... where it's thought that women don't suffer rejection at the hands of men as much as men do at the hands of women). All the women I know, without exception (and regardless of whether or not they're "young and pretty"), have suffered rejection at one time or another in their lives at the hands of men--some of them with the direst and most disastrous of consequences. This isn't a matter of personal feeling, for me; it's what I hear and see when I listen to, and look at, the lives of the women around me and with whom I enjoy a certain closeness.
Yes, true, many of my female friends are feminists. I'll admit that. But I ask myself, "Why does a woman become a feminist?" The answer I come up with (and it's very much my own) is: because far too many men are too "masculinist" (read: they--perhaps subconsciously--too easily discount the lives and experiences of women... just over half the human species). Feminist or not, though, women don't have it any easier than men do, when it comes to the relationship between the sexes. Some men--who truly believe that women are imbued with some sort of mythical power of unfailing attraction or sex appeal--would like to think so. Yet, if that were, indeed, the case, what of the majority of ordinary-looking women? Why don't men give them a second glance? Do these women not also possess this power over men? Much less devastating it is for a man to go up to a woman and be rejected out of hand than it is for a woman to not even merit a man's first glance. There's just no "best" way or "worst" way to relate to a woman. Just this: be yourself. Quacks like John Gray make a fortune by stoking our fears, insecurities, and misconceptions when it comes to how best to understand the opposite sex. Really, there's nothing to "understand." Like the bumper sticker says: "Men are from Earth; Women are from Earth. Period." Which gives me a good segue into Beauty's post.
Beauty,
Thanks for being so open and honest about this.
The two of us, we've covered this ground before. Although, in replying to Merinda's original post, it wasn't really my intention to re-ignite a debate over dating techniques, now that the subject is on the table, I only have this to say, really. Each person is unique; I don't have a dating "template" that I can "apply" across the board. I do understand what you mean, though, when you refer to a man's ability (or lack thereof--and it's surely my case, most of the time, seeing as I'm not really "looking" all that hard) to grasp whatever signals of interest a woman might (or might not) be sending his way. Beauty, this is a fundamental difference between us. And it's a difference not in our approaches but in our personalities. I'm not the "go-getter" you are (or seem to be). I have never, ever been rejected by a woman. Ever. Why? No, not because of any inherent superiority in my dating "technique." Hell! Far from it! Simply this: from a shy and withdrawn childhood to a (relatively) shy and withdrawn adulthood, I've always let the world itself come to me rather than aggressively going "out there" to get it for myself. I'm just not built that way. I pay attention to the world around me (and, yes, this includes women) but I don't covet anything in that world. I try to remain as real as I can (a bit of a paradox for a crossdresser, but one I've learned to live with--I'm as full of contradictions as anyone else here, on this forum, or in this world) knowing full well that people (women included) will sense this and hopefully be attracted to this quality. In all my relationships save one, I've never been the one to "initiate" contact, to approach a woman with "that" in mind. Never. On top of that, I've never rejected a woman in any way that would make her feel like a discarded piece of trash; I've told women, "No, thanks, I'm flattered, really, but, for this or that reason, I'm not on a relationship track, right now. Still interested in having a coffee, though?" I know this way of relating to women sounds like a glorified pick-up line to you, like an artfully slick manipulation by a smooth talker, but it's just not the case. And, Beauty, I'm not offended that you'd think this; I know that you can only go by what you, yourself, see around you. My own experience is different, is all.
Anyway, the "dating" section of my post above wasn't what was foremost in my mind when I wrote what I did. No, what bothered me more is the fact that there seems to be (no, I know that there, in fact, IS) this idealized image of womanhood floating around that both men (especially crossdressers) and women hold up as a desideratum. This has two main consequences: one, it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on women to "perform," as far as their appearance is concerned (through fashion, cosmetics, or plastic surgery, for example) and, two, it too often prevents men from seeing not the forest for the trees but the individual trees for the forest. If we can't see what's there, right in front of us, rather than what's in our own minds, we become lost. And this is what I see: we're lost, in many ways. We don't know what's real, anymore. Well, to me, the person sitting or standing there, across from me, is real. I'd even extend this to the Internet; when discovering who another person is while online, and once we've gotten past the seduction stage ("seduction," here meaning, trying to show ourselves to the other in the best possible light and in the most attractive manner--whether the aim is intimacy or friendship), realness, like a flower, is now free to blossom (if all conditions favour its blooming--just like in real life).
Now, all this might sound just too weird coming from a man who, for most of his life, has been dressing up in women's clothing and occasionally trying to pass himself off as a woman--a pretty and sexy and young-looking woman, at that. So, what gives? Well, I know that, in many ways (and some of them Shakespearian), I'm a bit like an "actor" in my own life. I enjoy living and taking on the different roles one must in order to live in this world. Being a son. Being a brother. Being a man. Being a crossdresser. Being Christina. These are all roles I'm called to play, here below, so to speak. I take none of them too seriously and just try to remain aware of my "Self" behind "myself," so to speak. Life is not "a vale of tears," for me (well, it no longer is, anyway); no, life is fun, it's a play... "all the world's a stage / and we are but players on it." If I didn't truly believe this, I would've managed to successfully carry out my plans to kill myself long ago. Plus, as I said above, I've learned to accept, at the very core of my own soul, that to be human is to be full of wondrous and often contradictory mysteries. I am that. And so are all of you.
Love,
CJ
P.S.
Beauty, what I say about women may not sound as sincere, to your ears, as what, for example, Hillary Clinton, might say about them, but could it be you're missing the point that both Sen. Clinton and I may be speaking as human beings when we say the things we do, and not just as either a man or a woman?
Merinda,
Dear, sweet Merinda: thanks for not freaking out on me.
I was afraid that some things I said would hurt you and, in anything I say, here on the forum, it's never my intention to hurt anyone. I'm glad you saw that. The thing is, you do sound like you currently lead a happy and fairly fulfilling life. Indeed, we should count our blessings, regardless of how we came by them. I think what set off my rant is the fact that people tend to make sweeping generalizations based, on the one hand, strictly on their own experience, and, on the other hand, on an inadequate knowledge or undestanding of that to which they refer to (in this case, "what it's like to be a woman"... where it's thought that women don't suffer rejection at the hands of men as much as men do at the hands of women). All the women I know, without exception (and regardless of whether or not they're "young and pretty"), have suffered rejection at one time or another in their lives at the hands of men--some of them with the direst and most disastrous of consequences. This isn't a matter of personal feeling, for me; it's what I hear and see when I listen to, and look at, the lives of the women around me and with whom I enjoy a certain closeness.Yes, true, many of my female friends are feminists. I'll admit that. But I ask myself, "Why does a woman become a feminist?" The answer I come up with (and it's very much my own) is: because far too many men are too "masculinist" (read: they--perhaps subconsciously--too easily discount the lives and experiences of women... just over half the human species). Feminist or not, though, women don't have it any easier than men do, when it comes to the relationship between the sexes. Some men--who truly believe that women are imbued with some sort of mythical power of unfailing attraction or sex appeal--would like to think so. Yet, if that were, indeed, the case, what of the majority of ordinary-looking women? Why don't men give them a second glance? Do these women not also possess this power over men? Much less devastating it is for a man to go up to a woman and be rejected out of hand than it is for a woman to not even merit a man's first glance. There's just no "best" way or "worst" way to relate to a woman. Just this: be yourself. Quacks like John Gray make a fortune by stoking our fears, insecurities, and misconceptions when it comes to how best to understand the opposite sex. Really, there's nothing to "understand." Like the bumper sticker says: "Men are from Earth; Women are from Earth. Period." Which gives me a good segue into Beauty's post.
Beauty,
Thanks for being so open and honest about this.
The two of us, we've covered this ground before. Although, in replying to Merinda's original post, it wasn't really my intention to re-ignite a debate over dating techniques, now that the subject is on the table, I only have this to say, really. Each person is unique; I don't have a dating "template" that I can "apply" across the board. I do understand what you mean, though, when you refer to a man's ability (or lack thereof--and it's surely my case, most of the time, seeing as I'm not really "looking" all that hard) to grasp whatever signals of interest a woman might (or might not) be sending his way. Beauty, this is a fundamental difference between us. And it's a difference not in our approaches but in our personalities. I'm not the "go-getter" you are (or seem to be). I have never, ever been rejected by a woman. Ever. Why? No, not because of any inherent superiority in my dating "technique." Hell! Far from it! Simply this: from a shy and withdrawn childhood to a (relatively) shy and withdrawn adulthood, I've always let the world itself come to me rather than aggressively going "out there" to get it for myself. I'm just not built that way. I pay attention to the world around me (and, yes, this includes women) but I don't covet anything in that world. I try to remain as real as I can (a bit of a paradox for a crossdresser, but one I've learned to live with--I'm as full of contradictions as anyone else here, on this forum, or in this world) knowing full well that people (women included) will sense this and hopefully be attracted to this quality. In all my relationships save one, I've never been the one to "initiate" contact, to approach a woman with "that" in mind. Never. On top of that, I've never rejected a woman in any way that would make her feel like a discarded piece of trash; I've told women, "No, thanks, I'm flattered, really, but, for this or that reason, I'm not on a relationship track, right now. Still interested in having a coffee, though?" I know this way of relating to women sounds like a glorified pick-up line to you, like an artfully slick manipulation by a smooth talker, but it's just not the case. And, Beauty, I'm not offended that you'd think this; I know that you can only go by what you, yourself, see around you. My own experience is different, is all.Anyway, the "dating" section of my post above wasn't what was foremost in my mind when I wrote what I did. No, what bothered me more is the fact that there seems to be (no, I know that there, in fact, IS) this idealized image of womanhood floating around that both men (especially crossdressers) and women hold up as a desideratum. This has two main consequences: one, it puts a tremendous amount of pressure on women to "perform," as far as their appearance is concerned (through fashion, cosmetics, or plastic surgery, for example) and, two, it too often prevents men from seeing not the forest for the trees but the individual trees for the forest. If we can't see what's there, right in front of us, rather than what's in our own minds, we become lost. And this is what I see: we're lost, in many ways. We don't know what's real, anymore. Well, to me, the person sitting or standing there, across from me, is real. I'd even extend this to the Internet; when discovering who another person is while online, and once we've gotten past the seduction stage ("seduction," here meaning, trying to show ourselves to the other in the best possible light and in the most attractive manner--whether the aim is intimacy or friendship), realness, like a flower, is now free to blossom (if all conditions favour its blooming--just like in real life).
Now, all this might sound just too weird coming from a man who, for most of his life, has been dressing up in women's clothing and occasionally trying to pass himself off as a woman--a pretty and sexy and young-looking woman, at that. So, what gives? Well, I know that, in many ways (and some of them Shakespearian), I'm a bit like an "actor" in my own life. I enjoy living and taking on the different roles one must in order to live in this world. Being a son. Being a brother. Being a man. Being a crossdresser. Being Christina. These are all roles I'm called to play, here below, so to speak. I take none of them too seriously and just try to remain aware of my "Self" behind "myself," so to speak. Life is not "a vale of tears," for me (well, it no longer is, anyway); no, life is fun, it's a play... "all the world's a stage / and we are but players on it." If I didn't truly believe this, I would've managed to successfully carry out my plans to kill myself long ago. Plus, as I said above, I've learned to accept, at the very core of my own soul, that to be human is to be full of wondrous and often contradictory mysteries. I am that. And so are all of you.
Love,
CJ
P.S.
Beauty, what I say about women may not sound as sincere, to your ears, as what, for example, Hillary Clinton, might say about them, but could it be you're missing the point that both Sen. Clinton and I may be speaking as human beings when we say the things we do, and not just as either a man or a woman?