I dated Black women before I got married (I am not Black so this was inter racial) and did manage to get into a fistfight with one of my friends over this one time. It seemed like something worth fighting for, Martin Luther King, nonviolence, and Christian love notwithstanding. I've gotten into a lot of nasty arguements with people about this over the years and I personally don't feel that for me this sort of agita is worth enduring for CDing as opposed to race relations.
Somehow, TO ME, my crossdressing just doesn't seem nearly as important. It certainly defines me far, far less than my color.
Central to the discussion FOR ME is the fact that I do not know how my wife would react. I have read enough here and other places to know that many wives take this badly. It doesn't seem worth the risk. Of course I am still taking the risk of getting caught. So there is some contradictory stuff there.
FOR ME, if I am not comfortable telling my wife I am certainly not comfortable telling the kids.
The discussion is really about telling my wife for me more than anything else. However with regards to kids, I do not tell them about my sex life with my wife either. It is not that I am ashamed of the fact that my wife and I have sex. It is that this is a private thing. Why is it private? That's a good question. I have a very close female friend and we discuss her sex life quite openly and graphically. And we have discussed my sexual relations with other women prior to me getting married in similar terms. But with my wife it's different. Why? Part of the reason of course is that I respect her wishes in this matter. But there is something else also.
Oh and by the way Cding for me has a strong sexual component. THere is also something else going on with it that doesn't have much to do with either sex or gender that I am trying to figure out. I suspect it has to do with theatricallity and fantasy at a private level.
One the other hand Elizabeth if you feel you need to be far more out about this go right ahead. It is your decison and who am I to have an opinion about what you should do anyway? Although I thought Raven knew all about this anyway and was pretty much okay with it. I was under the impression you had done what you are talking about here already.
Absaroka
They figured it out- Native Americans, GLBT community &
Moderators: KimberlyS, Eileen (SO)
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Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Absaroka,Absaroka wrote:
One the other hand Elizabeth if you feel you need to be far more out about this go right ahead. It is your decison and who am I to have an opinion about what you should do anyway? Although I thought Raven knew all about this anyway and was pretty much okay with it. I was under the impression you had done what you are talking about here already.
Yes, I have already done this myself. And that is why I can speak to it. Because all of the bad things that people said were going to happen to me or my kids simply has not materialized. No one cares. It has not changed the kids that come to my house, even though thier parents know about me. Neither of my sons have been teased or made fun of at school or anywhere else. Me and Raven have had no problems with society. SS determined that I was still disabled, even though this time when I went to see all thier doctors, including thier shrink, I went dressed as a women, because that is how i dress know.
Everyone advised me against this. Said that this was too conservative of an area and they would just rule against me. Because the appeals process taked about two years, it would force me onto welfare, and with SS saying I was not disabled, they would require me to work to get welfare. So I had a lot to lose by dressing as myself. I decided that the hardship of them ruling against me and the consequences of that would not be as bad as the hardship I had suffered while I was in the closet, that culminated in me trying to kill myself.
To many this must look like a reckless decision that put my kids at risk, and that I should have done the conservative thing and made sure my benefits were not cut off. But to do that I would have to go and pretend I am a man, and I know this is far different than the experience of the average crossdresser, but still It would be an admission that what I was doing was shameful and wrong and something to be hidden. I just don't see how I could go through with my lifestyle after admitting it was wrong and shameful.
Same with college. Many people cautioned me that I was risking my educational future because bigoted professors could just lower my grade and thiere would really be nothing I could do about it. I would be looking at a lower GPA and fewer graduate school choices and hence fewer job choices. Again, should I put my future and hence my family at risk again, just so I can live my life as a woman. And again the answer for me is, I have to.
I realize that there are many like yourself, that does not "have to", it just does not play that important of a role in your life to make it worth the risk and possible consquences of being outted. I remember when I used to think just like that. It was just not worth it.
But in the end for me, it is worth it. Because now that I have taken the risk, I can say that all these negative things that everyone expects to happen or says will happen, simply did not materialize for me. All that happened to me was that I went from having a really crappy life where I was angry all the time, to where I am now, which is that i have a really happy life. College has been really fun and challenging. But the way I have been treated just keeps a huge smile on face.
And the best part of all of this is that I have absolutely no guilt or shame about who and what I am. And that is such a relief that it has really changed my whole life. I just want to tell others that it can be done. If you think you are going to do it, dont' wait one more day. But before you can, you have to let go of what other people think. When people can sense that you don't care what they think(like when a man walks in crossdressed, looks you in the eye and smiles), they don't waste thier time with the intimidation or acts of superiority. But mostly people continually tell me that they admire my courage to be the person I want to be. Most people are not only tolerant, but friendly towards me.
So I am telling everyone, let's stop acting like this is shameful. Not only in words, but in actions.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Estefania
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:42 pm
Elizabeth,
You said...
Of course, the fact that those "horrible" things did NOT materialize for you doesn't mean that they have not materialized for others, who have lost it all, from jobs to family and friends. For every "success story", there are more than a few who faced a different fate.
It is obvious that you believe and won't change your mind thinking that if we don't fully come out to the world, it has to be because we are ashamed of it. I believe that basically, you are projecting your own self of being ashamed of yourself before you decided to come out. Of course, I might be wrong. I can only provide my opinion, and I also understand that your point is only your opinion, not an absolute.
I'll use, again, the following example... If I go and slap somebody, I can then say that I don't care about what they think. But I better be assured that I should care about how they will react. I don't care about what society thinks about me. But I sure care about how they would react to it.
You also said in a previous post...
Life is not a "one size fits all". What you have done, your motivation to do it, your path in life guided you to take the choices you have taken. It is very different for others. We don't face life and death situations about our cding. We have marriages and relationships that are worth staying in, and that would be very stressed by our choice to "stop being ashamed" of our crossdressing. (Like you call it). For some, it is not worth it. If you don't get the difference... well, nothing lost, nothing gained. We all decide our own battles to fight.
Regards,
Gaby
You said...
That's coming into action from a very, very different stand point in life. If your life was misserable, certainly most any change would be welcome. But what about those who are happy as they are? Who have nicely paid jobs, fit in society, have a loving wife, etc? Apples and oranges... And you said it too... for you all that change and coming out was about survival. Personally, I don't have anything to gain with broadcasting to the world that I crossdress.But in the end for me, it is worth it. Because now that I have taken the risk, I can say that all these negative things that everyone expects to happen or says will happen, simply did not materialize for me. All that happened to me was that I went from having a really crappy life where I was angry all the time, to where I am now, which is that i have a really happy life. College has been really fun and challenging. But the way I have been treated just keeps a huge smile on face.
Of course, the fact that those "horrible" things did NOT materialize for you doesn't mean that they have not materialized for others, who have lost it all, from jobs to family and friends. For every "success story", there are more than a few who faced a different fate.
It is obvious that you believe and won't change your mind thinking that if we don't fully come out to the world, it has to be because we are ashamed of it. I believe that basically, you are projecting your own self of being ashamed of yourself before you decided to come out. Of course, I might be wrong. I can only provide my opinion, and I also understand that your point is only your opinion, not an absolute.
I'll use, again, the following example... If I go and slap somebody, I can then say that I don't care about what they think. But I better be assured that I should care about how they will react. I don't care about what society thinks about me. But I sure care about how they would react to it.
You also said in a previous post...
Well, there is a big difference as well. I really don't care much about how society perceive each and every cd/tg/ts. We all project our individual personality and may gain acceptance or rejection based on it, after all. I have pretty much the level of acceptance that I want and need. Sure, if I can do something to educate some people, I'll try to do it. But I'm not a crusade for the cd/tg/ts rights. Cynical? Maybe. But realistic too.I also understand the reality of the world is such that many people would be harmed if they were outted. All I am really trying to do is to point out that, at some point we will become at least partially accepted in the community. Just like Gays, mixed marriages of race as well as religion, and other previously prohibited social behavior. But is started with those people saying that they were not hide in shame anymore. They went out into the public and withstood the barrage.
Life is not a "one size fits all". What you have done, your motivation to do it, your path in life guided you to take the choices you have taken. It is very different for others. We don't face life and death situations about our cding. We have marriages and relationships that are worth staying in, and that would be very stressed by our choice to "stop being ashamed" of our crossdressing. (Like you call it). For some, it is not worth it. If you don't get the difference... well, nothing lost, nothing gained. We all decide our own battles to fight.
Regards,
Gaby
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Stephanie W
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:57 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Elizabeth
Reading through this thread, it was obvious you were very passionate about your feelings and I respect that completely and your reasons. Much of what I was going to say was said very well by Gaby in her previous post.
I would be the first person to laud open acceptance by society for the ability to 'be ourselves'. However, not all of us need to be "out" in the way you are. I disagree that it is solely because we are ashamed of who we are. Luckily for me, I am now way past that and enjoy educating whomever I can about our community. But, there are limits to who I would share this with in my personal life for the same reasons others have mentioned. Sometimes it's on a need to know basis and IMHO, there should be a reason why someone 'needs' to know.
In an ideal world, nothing would please me more than all of us being able to experience the positive things you did in coming out and taking those risks to be who you (we) are. However, the reality is that not everyone will be blessed with that same fortitude. Everyone is different and the reactions will be as varied as the number of people you may choose to tell. That's not an excuse, but simply a reality. Like it or not, the majority of us do choose to respect the feelings of those close to us and there's nothing wrong in that at all in my opinion. It has absolutely nothing to do with being ashamed.
As I said before, I am not ashamed of who I am (just like you) but in my own situation, I have no need to impose my crossdressing on anyone who would not be comfortable with it. Sure, I could 'just do it' and let the chips fall where they may, but as a family person, I have too much respect for those who mean the most to me.
For the record, I came out to my three young children less than six months ago and they have been pretty cool with it so far - and yes, much better than I would have assumed. I had wanted to tell them sooner but my SO wasn't comfortable with that - a decision I respected. However, when the time came, she was naturally worried at first (as she has a right to be), but it was done in a way that made it more comfortable for her and she doesn't regret that decision at all. Of course, as the kids get older, there will be more questions and I expect to get into more in depth conversations with them in the coming years, but I think we're both ready for that. Why did I choose to tell them at all? Personally speaking, it was because I knew once they got older, it might have been more difficult for them to understand and I also wanted to do it on my terms, rather than them finding out or asking awkward questions when I wasn't ready.
So my point is, that like it or not, many of us have different needs than you do and getting fullfilment out of life may not necessarily mean taking the same path as you did. Being in a life or death situation will naturally change one's perspective on life so having never been in that situation, I cannot speak to that. What you did (or had to do) obviously worked for you and I congratulate you on being able to do what you did.
Yes, one could argue that if we are to trumpet our cause, we should all be standing up in unison and saying, "to heck with you all" and charging forward with all the reckless abandon we can muster. Perhaps a good number of us might make it through but the lives of many more will be left by the wayside as they try and pick up the pieces of their broken relationships and family life. How many of us want to risk that and would the benefits out weigh those risks? I know I would sooner be a happy TG person with a supportive family and a friend or two, rather than be totally free to dress but alone. That's just me though.
Stephanie
That says it all. Good for you Elizabeth and may your life continue to be everything you dreamed.And the best part of all of this is that I have absolutely no guilt or shame about who and what I am.
Reading through this thread, it was obvious you were very passionate about your feelings and I respect that completely and your reasons. Much of what I was going to say was said very well by Gaby in her previous post.
We are all different and where we are in our journey depends on so many factors. As someone said, one size simply doesn't fit all.I'll use, again, the following example... If I go and slap somebody, I can then say that I don't care about what they think. But I better be assured that I should care about how they will react. I don't care about what society thinks about me. But I sure care about how they would react to it.
I would be the first person to laud open acceptance by society for the ability to 'be ourselves'. However, not all of us need to be "out" in the way you are. I disagree that it is solely because we are ashamed of who we are. Luckily for me, I am now way past that and enjoy educating whomever I can about our community. But, there are limits to who I would share this with in my personal life for the same reasons others have mentioned. Sometimes it's on a need to know basis and IMHO, there should be a reason why someone 'needs' to know.
In an ideal world, nothing would please me more than all of us being able to experience the positive things you did in coming out and taking those risks to be who you (we) are. However, the reality is that not everyone will be blessed with that same fortitude. Everyone is different and the reactions will be as varied as the number of people you may choose to tell. That's not an excuse, but simply a reality. Like it or not, the majority of us do choose to respect the feelings of those close to us and there's nothing wrong in that at all in my opinion. It has absolutely nothing to do with being ashamed.
As I said before, I am not ashamed of who I am (just like you) but in my own situation, I have no need to impose my crossdressing on anyone who would not be comfortable with it. Sure, I could 'just do it' and let the chips fall where they may, but as a family person, I have too much respect for those who mean the most to me.
For the record, I came out to my three young children less than six months ago and they have been pretty cool with it so far - and yes, much better than I would have assumed. I had wanted to tell them sooner but my SO wasn't comfortable with that - a decision I respected. However, when the time came, she was naturally worried at first (as she has a right to be), but it was done in a way that made it more comfortable for her and she doesn't regret that decision at all. Of course, as the kids get older, there will be more questions and I expect to get into more in depth conversations with them in the coming years, but I think we're both ready for that. Why did I choose to tell them at all? Personally speaking, it was because I knew once they got older, it might have been more difficult for them to understand and I also wanted to do it on my terms, rather than them finding out or asking awkward questions when I wasn't ready.
So my point is, that like it or not, many of us have different needs than you do and getting fullfilment out of life may not necessarily mean taking the same path as you did. Being in a life or death situation will naturally change one's perspective on life so having never been in that situation, I cannot speak to that. What you did (or had to do) obviously worked for you and I congratulate you on being able to do what you did.
Yes, one could argue that if we are to trumpet our cause, we should all be standing up in unison and saying, "to heck with you all" and charging forward with all the reckless abandon we can muster. Perhaps a good number of us might make it through but the lives of many more will be left by the wayside as they try and pick up the pieces of their broken relationships and family life. How many of us want to risk that and would the benefits out weigh those risks? I know I would sooner be a happy TG person with a supportive family and a friend or two, rather than be totally free to dress but alone. That's just me though.
Stephanie
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Jeannie
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: Connecticut
You're right Elizabeth.
I've told just about everyone I come in contact with and nothing bad has happened to me. Some that won't accept it stay away but that's good. We only have to accept ourselves . We all create in our heads what will happen and you will find most people don't give crap. I'm having fun after 55 years finally being myself.
This Saturday night I am going over two GG friends to cook dinner and bringing some suits for one who lost weight and is now a size 8 petite like me. What could be better than dinner and a Fashion show? I can't wait.
On Memorial day My GG friend in Clinton CT is having a big cookout with all our mutual friends and Little Jeannie is doing the cooking. I just love to cook and wear my capris with Hawaiian shirt and straw open toe clogs with my ankle bracelets and painted toes.How sweet it that?
Life is short to be miserable and by going out it makes people realize we are just people and not monsters.All I want to do is be me and go about my day like everyone else gets to do in life. That's all. Hugs ladies.
Love
Jeannie
This Saturday night I am going over two GG friends to cook dinner and bringing some suits for one who lost weight and is now a size 8 petite like me. What could be better than dinner and a Fashion show? I can't wait.
On Memorial day My GG friend in Clinton CT is having a big cookout with all our mutual friends and Little Jeannie is doing the cooking. I just love to cook and wear my capris with Hawaiian shirt and straw open toe clogs with my ankle bracelets and painted toes.How sweet it that?
Life is short to be miserable and by going out it makes people realize we are just people and not monsters.All I want to do is be me and go about my day like everyone else gets to do in life. That's all. Hugs ladies.
Love
Jeannie
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Estefania
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:42 pm
Jeannie,
I'm glad that you are happy with the choice you made. However, I hope that you would also be equaly happy for those who, like me, have made the choice not to "come out" as CD's.
Some of us just do not need to wear women's clothes or makeup or anything else all the time to be happy. Sure, when we chose to do it it can be an usually is a very enjoyable time, but not a life defining issue. I can be equally as happy in my drabbies than in my femmies. I have a choice, like most do. We are more than the clothes we wear, after all...
I guess that we all agree in one point... if your life is misserable because you wish you could CD more, and are limited by life/family/work/etc, it is a good moment to re-evaluate those circumstances... giving everything a priority into our lives. Is it more important to be able to wear women's clothes any time we want, or having a loving relationship with your spouse? Choice... there is always choice. It is not (like Elizabeth mentioned early in this tread) about control... It is about relationships, commitment, compromise, priorities.
Gaby
I'm glad that you are happy with the choice you made. However, I hope that you would also be equaly happy for those who, like me, have made the choice not to "come out" as CD's.
Some of us just do not need to wear women's clothes or makeup or anything else all the time to be happy. Sure, when we chose to do it it can be an usually is a very enjoyable time, but not a life defining issue. I can be equally as happy in my drabbies than in my femmies. I have a choice, like most do. We are more than the clothes we wear, after all...
I guess that we all agree in one point... if your life is misserable because you wish you could CD more, and are limited by life/family/work/etc, it is a good moment to re-evaluate those circumstances... giving everything a priority into our lives. Is it more important to be able to wear women's clothes any time we want, or having a loving relationship with your spouse? Choice... there is always choice. It is not (like Elizabeth mentioned early in this tread) about control... It is about relationships, commitment, compromise, priorities.
Gaby
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Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Gaby,
I do understand that we are not all in a place where coming out is a realistic possibility, simply because society is not accepting. Many people do consider it to be shameful, sinful, and sexually perverted. Right or wrong, they do think it, and many of those people control our jobs, our ability to borrow money, our children's welfare.
I clearly remember a time when coming out for me, would have been an impossibility. The cost would just be too high. I am not saying that everyone should run home, slip into a dress and call everyone you know and tell them you are a crossdresser.
I am speaking idealistically. I am saying that if this behavior was not considered shameful, if it were no different than say wearing a baseball cap, no one would hide it. All I am really trying to say is that how we are treated will never change as long as we treat ourselves like we are doing something wrong.
When we concede to others that we should not tell our children, or we should hide it from people to protect thier feelings, we are being controlled by others. No one is ever going to say, "hey all you crossdressers, come on out, everything is cool". 99.999% of people asked are not going to advise any of us to come out of the closet. People like the status quo.
I am saying that, at least among ourselves, our family's, those we care about, we need to stop apologizing for who and what we are. We need to stop feeling like we have to change to accomidate others. My brother said he did not want me over his house dressed as a woman. So I have not been to his house for almost 2 years now. We used to be good friends. He could not beleive that I would not concede this to him. Why should I? He said that he could not have me over because he did not want people to think he "condoned that sort of thing" and he had grandchildren that came around and he had to "consider family values".
He is entitled to his moral judgements, but I will not validate them by visiting him dressed up as he would have me. It doesnt' change who and what I am, I just makes me a fraud. This is the kind of thing I am talking about.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I do understand that we are not all in a place where coming out is a realistic possibility, simply because society is not accepting. Many people do consider it to be shameful, sinful, and sexually perverted. Right or wrong, they do think it, and many of those people control our jobs, our ability to borrow money, our children's welfare.
I clearly remember a time when coming out for me, would have been an impossibility. The cost would just be too high. I am not saying that everyone should run home, slip into a dress and call everyone you know and tell them you are a crossdresser.
I am speaking idealistically. I am saying that if this behavior was not considered shameful, if it were no different than say wearing a baseball cap, no one would hide it. All I am really trying to say is that how we are treated will never change as long as we treat ourselves like we are doing something wrong.
When we concede to others that we should not tell our children, or we should hide it from people to protect thier feelings, we are being controlled by others. No one is ever going to say, "hey all you crossdressers, come on out, everything is cool". 99.999% of people asked are not going to advise any of us to come out of the closet. People like the status quo.
I am saying that, at least among ourselves, our family's, those we care about, we need to stop apologizing for who and what we are. We need to stop feeling like we have to change to accomidate others. My brother said he did not want me over his house dressed as a woman. So I have not been to his house for almost 2 years now. We used to be good friends. He could not beleive that I would not concede this to him. Why should I? He said that he could not have me over because he did not want people to think he "condoned that sort of thing" and he had grandchildren that came around and he had to "consider family values".
He is entitled to his moral judgements, but I will not validate them by visiting him dressed up as he would have me. It doesnt' change who and what I am, I just makes me a fraud. This is the kind of thing I am talking about.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Jeannie
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: Connecticut
I understand ladies.
Everyone situation is differant and every one of us have differant reasons for dressing and how much is enough. I've just never felt comfortable in mens clothes nor with the role assigned to me as a male and I am a bit more than a crossdresser. Wherever you ladies are on the scale that's fine. You have to do what you have to do.
One thing though. Once your out there's no going back into that horrible little box anymore.
When I finish this I have to go over my wifes Codo and hang some drapes and put up curtain rods. I have on a womans Hawiian shirt,a bit of makeup and masscara,cute kaki cargo capris with ties at the legs and brown Clarks womens sandals with a cut out daisy on each strap. I forgot, two slim gold ankle bracelets.
When she opens the door I will get "THE LOOK" but she will still let me in and hang the curtains. It's a hoot to see her expression! Love what you do and do what you love. I'm going with flow girls. I got tired of swimming upstream. You get nowhere fast. My flow is quite differant than most I've encountered here on the forum but that's fine with me. We are all in the same boat ladies. Some are the crew and there are a few Captains.
Hugs
Love
Jeannie
PS. I also have pale pink nail polish on my hands and cute little piggies. Jeannie is so vain!
One thing though. Once your out there's no going back into that horrible little box anymore.
When I finish this I have to go over my wifes Codo and hang some drapes and put up curtain rods. I have on a womans Hawiian shirt,a bit of makeup and masscara,cute kaki cargo capris with ties at the legs and brown Clarks womens sandals with a cut out daisy on each strap. I forgot, two slim gold ankle bracelets.
When she opens the door I will get "THE LOOK" but she will still let me in and hang the curtains. It's a hoot to see her expression! Love what you do and do what you love. I'm going with flow girls. I got tired of swimming upstream. You get nowhere fast. My flow is quite differant than most I've encountered here on the forum but that's fine with me. We are all in the same boat ladies. Some are the crew and there are a few Captains.
HugsLove
Jeannie
PS. I also have pale pink nail polish on my hands and cute little piggies. Jeannie is so vain!
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Estefania
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:42 pm
Elizabeth,
Apples and oranges after all.
Jeannie,
All gets me back to how different it is to crossdress or identify yourself as being a crossdresser against what it is to being a transgendered person. As a CD, crossdressing is NOT the most important thing in the world, the thing that define who we are. Is only a part of who we are. And even so, it may be a very important part of our personality, or just something that can be enjoyable from time to time.
Last time I say it... not being out with our crossdressing doesn't mean that we are ashamed of who we are. Those who get it, great! Those who will still think that we are ashamed, well, too bad. But as much as we respect who they are, it would be nice if they could respect our right to do things different than they do, without that attitude of looking down at us because of it.
Enough said...
Gaby
That's really getting into the heart of the matter... For many of us the way we dress when conducting our every day issues is not as important as it is for you. I'm not a fraud by going to see my parents or my siblings or to work or church endrab. Because that is who I am. There is no fraud there. Who I am doesn't have anything to do with the clothes I'm wearing. Again, I don't tell my parents about my cding because I don't have a reason to tell them. I don't care about "seeing their shocked faces" like many others would like and enjoy. I love them and I care about how they feel, while at the same time my feelings are not hurt by not telling them.He is entitled to his moral judgements, but I will not validate them by visiting him dressed up as he would have me. It doesnt' change who and what I am, I just makes me a fraud. This is the kind of thing I am talking about.
Apples and oranges after all.
Jeannie,
I beg to differ on that one as well. We are not all in the same boat. (Unless you call being alive being in the same boat). Each one of us is the captain of his/her own destiny. (Cute that you would consider some to be "crew" and others "captains". Something tells me you consider yourself to be in the later group...)We are all in the same boat ladies. Some are the crew and there are a few Captains.
All gets me back to how different it is to crossdress or identify yourself as being a crossdresser against what it is to being a transgendered person. As a CD, crossdressing is NOT the most important thing in the world, the thing that define who we are. Is only a part of who we are. And even so, it may be a very important part of our personality, or just something that can be enjoyable from time to time.
Last time I say it... not being out with our crossdressing doesn't mean that we are ashamed of who we are. Those who get it, great! Those who will still think that we are ashamed, well, too bad. But as much as we respect who they are, it would be nice if they could respect our right to do things different than they do, without that attitude of looking down at us because of it.
Enough said...
Gaby
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Jeannie
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: Connecticut
I love you ladies. You kill me!
How did you ever get the name Gaby Hun? I meant Captain as a higher level of dressing not as one who is your superior. Whether you dress occasionally,for fun,for an erotic adventure or whatever is just fine. In my mind once you start putting on womens clothes and continue doing so Honey,you are crusing with us.
It strikes me funny when some say "I'm getting in touch with my feminine side". Do you have to be or look like a woman to be warm,caring, sensitive and all the rest? Absolutely not.Do you have to be a man to be courageous,aggressive,strong willed and fearless? Absolutely not. Those things have nothing to do with gender or sex. Any human can have all or none of those characteristics whether male our female. My wife's best girlfriend makes Attilla the Hun look like a boy scout. She scares poor little Jeannie!
By the way Gaby,you're real cute. I love those zophtic women. You can sit at the Captains table with me at dinner tonight. Wear something pretty Hun! Hugs and lipstick kisses.
Love
Jeannie
PS But don't get any ideas Gaby. I don't put out on the first date. Well. Not always! Like they say in the nursing homes "Depends!":lol:
I meant Captain as a higher level of dressing not as one who is your superior. Whether you dress occasionally,for fun,for an erotic adventure or whatever is just fine. In my mind once you start putting on womens clothes and continue doing so Honey,you are crusing with us.It strikes me funny when some say "I'm getting in touch with my feminine side". Do you have to be or look like a woman to be warm,caring, sensitive and all the rest? Absolutely not.Do you have to be a man to be courageous,aggressive,strong willed and fearless? Absolutely not. Those things have nothing to do with gender or sex. Any human can have all or none of those characteristics whether male our female. My wife's best girlfriend makes Attilla the Hun look like a boy scout. She scares poor little Jeannie!
By the way Gaby,you're real cute. I love those zophtic women. You can sit at the Captains table with me at dinner tonight. Wear something pretty Hun! Hugs and lipstick kisses.
Love
Jeannie
PS But don't get any ideas Gaby. I don't put out on the first date. Well. Not always! Like they say in the nursing homes "Depends!":lol:
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Estefania
- Miss Platinum Goddess
- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:42 pm
Jeannie,
I'm quite happy as I am, thank you very much. Really glad to stay at my "low level", so to speak. And well, it is only your opinion that I'm cruising along in the same boat.
I'm glad you are aware of the following, though...
There, we couldn't agree any more.
"Zophtic"? Gee, thanks! Such a nice compliment... (Not) ~ But nothing to worry... And thanks for the great and wonderful offer to join you at the "Captain's table", but I much rather stay with the other "lowly" CDs, thanks.
Gaby
Higher level of dressing, huh? Still sounds quite condescending to me. It is not about who is in a "higher level" or who has more pairs of shoes or who has gone out enfemme or not. CDing is a personal thing. Don't be surprised when a post-op TS looks down at you because she also thinks that she is in a "higher level". Or a the "Pre-op" who has been in hormones, etc.I meant Captain as a higher level of dressing not as one who is your superior.
I'm quite happy as I am, thank you very much. Really glad to stay at my "low level", so to speak. And well, it is only your opinion that I'm cruising along in the same boat.
I'm glad you are aware of the following, though...
Do you have to be or look like a woman to be warm,caring, sensitive and all the rest? Absolutely not.Do you have to be a man to be courageous,aggressive,strong willed and fearless? Absolutely not. Those things have nothing to do with gender or sex. Any human can have all or none of those characteristics whether male our female.
There, we couldn't agree any more.
"Zophtic"? Gee, thanks! Such a nice compliment... (Not) ~ But nothing to worry... And thanks for the great and wonderful offer to join you at the "Captain's table", but I much rather stay with the other "lowly" CDs, thanks.
Gaby
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Elizabeth
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1878
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 3:02 am
Hi Gaby,
I get it and I do not beleive that the amount anyone dresses tells us anything about the quality of the person they are. I agree with you that we all have very different needs.
I tried to include this in my posts, that I am aware as a transsexual my need to dress is way way higher than your average crossdresser. We dress for entirely different reasons, and our objectives in dressing is entirely different.
I do not beleive we are all in the same boat as far as our need to come out to others. There are many crossdressers where coming out would be disasterous when compared to thier need to dress. I do beleive we are all in the same boat as far as this need to crossdress. And regardless of how we feel about our own crossdressing, for the most part society does not approve, and most likely won't in the foreseeable future.
This requires us to be practical. I remember when I thought I was going to go to my grave with this secret. I regretted telling my exwife, who was not accepting, and I certainly did not want anyone else to know. It would have caused a huge amount of problems and even if I had come out back then, I did not live in a place where i would have felt safe enough to dress in public. I lived in Wyoming, where Mathew Shepard was tortured tied to a fence and left to die of thirst and the elements, just for being gay.
It's just that I know there is going to be a time when crossdressing will be accepted as a part of the human condition. Just like homosexuality, it started by gay people coming out of the closet. It was the sheer numbers of gays that have served to convince us that this also is a part of the human condition. Someone in the gay community spoke up, then another, then another. That is how it started.
There are many people like me who lived our life alone, not knowing there were others like me. Thinking I truly was a freak. Because my need to dress and present as a woman is so great, I am highly motivated to get on with this debate. We need more crossdressers to come out of the closet. We need the mainstream public to see how many of us there really are. This is going to take time, and the sooner we start, the sooner we will be on our way to getting rid of the stigma associated with crossdressing.
This has really been a great exchange of ideas here and I have really enjoyed it so far. I hope this does not deteriorate into sarcasm and name calling. I don't think my point of view is the only valid point of view or even a valid point of view for that matter, it's just what I think.
I do want to hear how others feel and how they deal with these issues and I don't need people to agree or disagree with me. Just finding out how my fellow sisters see this, and to tell them how i see it.
Love always,
Elizabeth
I get it and I do not beleive that the amount anyone dresses tells us anything about the quality of the person they are. I agree with you that we all have very different needs.
I tried to include this in my posts, that I am aware as a transsexual my need to dress is way way higher than your average crossdresser. We dress for entirely different reasons, and our objectives in dressing is entirely different.
I do not beleive we are all in the same boat as far as our need to come out to others. There are many crossdressers where coming out would be disasterous when compared to thier need to dress. I do beleive we are all in the same boat as far as this need to crossdress. And regardless of how we feel about our own crossdressing, for the most part society does not approve, and most likely won't in the foreseeable future.
This requires us to be practical. I remember when I thought I was going to go to my grave with this secret. I regretted telling my exwife, who was not accepting, and I certainly did not want anyone else to know. It would have caused a huge amount of problems and even if I had come out back then, I did not live in a place where i would have felt safe enough to dress in public. I lived in Wyoming, where Mathew Shepard was tortured tied to a fence and left to die of thirst and the elements, just for being gay.
It's just that I know there is going to be a time when crossdressing will be accepted as a part of the human condition. Just like homosexuality, it started by gay people coming out of the closet. It was the sheer numbers of gays that have served to convince us that this also is a part of the human condition. Someone in the gay community spoke up, then another, then another. That is how it started.
There are many people like me who lived our life alone, not knowing there were others like me. Thinking I truly was a freak. Because my need to dress and present as a woman is so great, I am highly motivated to get on with this debate. We need more crossdressers to come out of the closet. We need the mainstream public to see how many of us there really are. This is going to take time, and the sooner we start, the sooner we will be on our way to getting rid of the stigma associated with crossdressing.
This has really been a great exchange of ideas here and I have really enjoyed it so far. I hope this does not deteriorate into sarcasm and name calling. I don't think my point of view is the only valid point of view or even a valid point of view for that matter, it's just what I think.
I do want to hear how others feel and how they deal with these issues and I don't need people to agree or disagree with me. Just finding out how my fellow sisters see this, and to tell them how i see it.
Love always,
Elizabeth
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Stephanie W
- Miss Golden Goddess
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:57 pm
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Elizabeth
I agree there needs to be more of us out there doing our thing. That's the only way we, as transgendered people, will ever come close to any semblance of acceptance. However, each of us can only do what we are comfortable doing, within the parameters of our individual situations. If that situation and our confidence allows for more growth, then we can certainly move to another level. That can only be done if we have a "desire" or "need" to do so, and as I alluded to in my earlier post, moving beyond a comfort zone must (or should) be for the right reasons such as with the support of those important to us. That's just my opinion.
Those bold enough to run the gauntlet can certainly take the credit for breaking down the barriers but they need to remain cognizant that the majority of us choosing to move at a more measured pace will be equally important during establishment of the revised (or new) status quo. Transsexuals appear to be at the forefront of the neophyte TG movement with basic human rights now being rewritten to include them in various jurisdictions. That's progress. For those of us who do not identify as transsexual, we've probably got a lot more educating to do before society understands the subtle (and not so subtle) differences between a TS and a CD for example, and the differences in our respective needs. So yes, we need to be out there, which I am - doing what I can, but again, within the realm of my comfort zone. Would I look down on others for moving at a slower pace than myself? Never! Even one small baby step towards the big wide world is not only progress for them as an individual, but it's progress for all of us. Perhaps not as quickly as some folks would like but any step forward is better than one step back.
In my experience, I haven't always found that first part to be true (not about you. but in general). In fact I have been amazed at how many TS's just don't want (or can't be bothered) to dress or 'conform' to their chosen gender - at least in a semi passable way. (hey, maybe they don't need to?) Not sure why that is, but most I've met or ran across, seem to be happy dressed down in clothing that I would consider suitable for either sex, even as far as retaining the male exterior. I know those who do choose to assimilate into their chosen gender are out there but whether they outnumber those I've just described, I don't know. I doubt it though. Then again, maybe there are thousands of gals out there doing such a great job, I can't even tell. (Hmm, reminds me of another thread!
.......which brings me to one other thing that I've wondered about - I have noticed you refering to yourself as both transsexual and crossdresser, sometimes even in the same sentence. In my experience with my TS friends (and many others I've read about), I have yet to run across anyone (truly identifying as a TS), ever refer to themselves as a crossdresser (which makes sense to me) given they they identify as a female so therefore wouldn't consider how they dress as crossdressing. Right? Perhaps simply my limited life experience, I don't know. Just curious though.
Stephanie
I agree there needs to be more of us out there doing our thing. That's the only way we, as transgendered people, will ever come close to any semblance of acceptance. However, each of us can only do what we are comfortable doing, within the parameters of our individual situations. If that situation and our confidence allows for more growth, then we can certainly move to another level. That can only be done if we have a "desire" or "need" to do so, and as I alluded to in my earlier post, moving beyond a comfort zone must (or should) be for the right reasons such as with the support of those important to us. That's just my opinion.
Those bold enough to run the gauntlet can certainly take the credit for breaking down the barriers but they need to remain cognizant that the majority of us choosing to move at a more measured pace will be equally important during establishment of the revised (or new) status quo. Transsexuals appear to be at the forefront of the neophyte TG movement with basic human rights now being rewritten to include them in various jurisdictions. That's progress. For those of us who do not identify as transsexual, we've probably got a lot more educating to do before society understands the subtle (and not so subtle) differences between a TS and a CD for example, and the differences in our respective needs. So yes, we need to be out there, which I am - doing what I can, but again, within the realm of my comfort zone. Would I look down on others for moving at a slower pace than myself? Never! Even one small baby step towards the big wide world is not only progress for them as an individual, but it's progress for all of us. Perhaps not as quickly as some folks would like but any step forward is better than one step back.
I tried to include this in my posts, that I am aware as a transsexual my need to dress is way way higher than your average crossdresser. We dress for entirely different reasons, and our objectives in dressing is entirely different.
In my experience, I haven't always found that first part to be true (not about you. but in general). In fact I have been amazed at how many TS's just don't want (or can't be bothered) to dress or 'conform' to their chosen gender - at least in a semi passable way. (hey, maybe they don't need to?) Not sure why that is, but most I've met or ran across, seem to be happy dressed down in clothing that I would consider suitable for either sex, even as far as retaining the male exterior. I know those who do choose to assimilate into their chosen gender are out there but whether they outnumber those I've just described, I don't know. I doubt it though. Then again, maybe there are thousands of gals out there doing such a great job, I can't even tell. (Hmm, reminds me of another thread!
.......which brings me to one other thing that I've wondered about - I have noticed you refering to yourself as both transsexual and crossdresser, sometimes even in the same sentence. In my experience with my TS friends (and many others I've read about), I have yet to run across anyone (truly identifying as a TS), ever refer to themselves as a crossdresser (which makes sense to me) given they they identify as a female so therefore wouldn't consider how they dress as crossdressing. Right? Perhaps simply my limited life experience, I don't know. Just curious though.
Stephanie
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Jeannie
- Miss Ruby Goddess
- Posts: 1308
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: Connecticut
There are levels with everything
Gaby. I'm not being condesending. There are differant levels of intelligence,tolerance,sexual needs,beauty and a myriad of other things. Take for instance my idea of beauty. I think you look fabulous. I am ambivolent about skinny women. I think you have a killer figure and are very pretty and you have great legs. Zophtic for me is not a backed handed compliment.
I still believe that if you are a man in womens clothes we then have something in common. The reasons we do it are differant and how often we do it depends on our individual reasons.
As for how others will react you will be surprised how most people take the news. You will find out who your true friends are. I'm at this moment at my GG friend Chris's house in Clinton Connecticut dog and cat sitting. Her sister Corinne inviteved Jeannie to cook next saturday night with another GGI know Irene. Corinne lost 40 lbs and I have some great size 8 petite suits and skirts for her. What could be better than dinner and a fashion show hun?
I take care of my elderly Aunt Pearl who is in a assisted living community and they all know Jeannie. I've told my good friend Thor,an ex Marine and he justlaughed and said my kids told him long ago. He comes for dinner every friday night and said"I've always known you were differant. I usually don't go over my guy friends house and the table is set with a table cloth,placemats and linen napkins and my scotch glass is chilled in the frezzer!"
My world opened up and now I'm all dressed up with places to go. If you want to dress and stay in your home that's fine. That is definately not me Hun. This is how my life feels comfortable. At 55 I can't and won't be around people who barely tolerate me. That's just me. I protected others around me from me at my own expense and enough is enough.
I never cared when or how I die but I promised myself I would not go with Jeannie,crying,kicking and screaming as the grim reaper draged her into her grave into the vast nothingness of the universe with the same nothingness inside. You see Hun. It's just another level. No better no worse. For the ones like me out there who are young. You'll get there. Trust me. I waited way too long but you can't go back. As Dennis Leary says. " Happiness comes in small doses. It's a chocalete chip cookie,a good cigar or a 5 second Org---. You eat the cookie,have the org---,smoke the cigar,go to bed and wake up and go to work. Life sucks. Get a freaking helmit" So true. I wear my helmit everyday now. Life is finally good. Gotta go. Bootsey the dog is giving me a strange look. I don't think she likes my little red sundress and clogs. That's her problem though! I look real cute Gaby. Not bad for a 55 year old broad! Hugs
Love
Jeannie
PS. And on the level of sexuality,I've been on both sides so to speak. No pun intended Hun. I still think you look fabulous Beautiful.But that's just me Hun! If you ever break up with your SO give me a call Hun. I'd make some lucky gal a great wife. I even do windows. The issue with my wife was she wanted a great husband. No can do!:lol:
I still believe that if you are a man in womens clothes we then have something in common. The reasons we do it are differant and how often we do it depends on our individual reasons.
As for how others will react you will be surprised how most people take the news. You will find out who your true friends are. I'm at this moment at my GG friend Chris's house in Clinton Connecticut dog and cat sitting. Her sister Corinne inviteved Jeannie to cook next saturday night with another GGI know Irene. Corinne lost 40 lbs and I have some great size 8 petite suits and skirts for her. What could be better than dinner and a fashion show hun?
I take care of my elderly Aunt Pearl who is in a assisted living community and they all know Jeannie. I've told my good friend Thor,an ex Marine and he justlaughed and said my kids told him long ago. He comes for dinner every friday night and said"I've always known you were differant. I usually don't go over my guy friends house and the table is set with a table cloth,placemats and linen napkins and my scotch glass is chilled in the frezzer!"
My world opened up and now I'm all dressed up with places to go. If you want to dress and stay in your home that's fine. That is definately not me Hun. This is how my life feels comfortable. At 55 I can't and won't be around people who barely tolerate me. That's just me. I protected others around me from me at my own expense and enough is enough.
I never cared when or how I die but I promised myself I would not go with Jeannie,crying,kicking and screaming as the grim reaper draged her into her grave into the vast nothingness of the universe with the same nothingness inside. You see Hun. It's just another level. No better no worse. For the ones like me out there who are young. You'll get there. Trust me. I waited way too long but you can't go back. As Dennis Leary says. " Happiness comes in small doses. It's a chocalete chip cookie,a good cigar or a 5 second Org---. You eat the cookie,have the org---,smoke the cigar,go to bed and wake up and go to work. Life sucks. Get a freaking helmit" So true. I wear my helmit everyday now. Life is finally good. Gotta go. Bootsey the dog is giving me a strange look. I don't think she likes my little red sundress and clogs. That's her problem though! I look real cute Gaby. Not bad for a 55 year old broad! Hugs
Love
Jeannie
PS. And on the level of sexuality,I've been on both sides so to speak. No pun intended Hun. I still think you look fabulous Beautiful.But that's just me Hun! If you ever break up with your SO give me a call Hun. I'd make some lucky gal a great wife. I even do windows. The issue with my wife was she wanted a great husband. No can do!:lol: